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12:54:54
AeroNotix
I'm sure I could google this but what if your dist provides a package that's in the base quicklisp dist?
12:56:15
jmercouris
Shinmera: Okay, so is it okay if I bounce off my idea off of you to make sure I understand this?
12:57:03
jmercouris
people can submit packages, whatever, each package contains it's own folder per the quickdist instructions
12:57:36
jmercouris
then, I can use quickdist to publish to my github io page at some url called like next-dist or whatever
12:58:09
jmercouris
when next first loads it will do: (ql-dist:install-dist "http://url-to-next-dist.github.io/quickdist.txt")
12:58:53
jmercouris
then of course theoretically, assuming I exported properly, they will be able to (ql:quickload "xyz-package-from-next-trusted-repository")
12:59:06
Shinmera
jmercouris: Is next supposed to be quickloadable or only available as a binary package?
12:59:34
Shinmera
In the former I heavily advise you not to mess with quicklisp without the user's explicit instructions to do so
12:59:48
Shinmera
In the latter I would do that before you ship a package so that it's already done.
13:00:02
AeroNotix
jmercouris: as Shinmera mentioned messing with the user's QL is no good. You can however isolate next's QL environment though
13:00:17
AeroNotix
e.g. if you install from binary and have a next-isolated QL install then everything is fair game.
13:00:40
AeroNotix
jmercouris: not sure about namespaced but in Lispkit I install QL into a local dir and use that instead.
13:00:44
Shinmera
jmercouris: You can have multiple QL installations, but only one active at a time in an image.
13:00:57
AeroNotix
look at lispkit's makefile. There's some rules which do something similar. Should give you an idea
13:01:56
jmercouris
but if they are quickloading next, then they can't exactly switch to another QL installation after having quickloaded it
13:03:44
jmercouris
AeroNotix: have you given the GTK version a spin perchance? I know you're super busy, jw
13:03:58
AeroNotix
jmercouris: no I haven't. Getting more time recently though. When I get a minute I'll run it
13:04:38
AeroNotix
but I am talking about users of binary distributions. Installing your own QL path and load plugins from that is better
13:04:50
jmercouris
because if they can QL next, they should be able to go ahead and add a new dist to install plugins etc
13:05:22
jmercouris
and at any rate, when they QL next, they can compile it, and install plugins that way as well
13:06:18
AeroNotix
https://github.com/AeroNotix/lispkit/blob/master/Makefile#L72-L84 here's what I did in lispkit. This was aimed at being able to build lispkit without needing many system dependencies but the idea remains
13:11:17
jmercouris
Also, I am trying to do split window, and I'm having a very unpleasant time trying to figure it out
13:11:40
jmercouris
on the surface it looks so deceptively simple, just a tree of views, with split horziontal and split vertical
13:11:41
AeroNotix
jmercouris: I just built the image for it and in the repo I had a PKGBUILD for archlinux
13:12:38
jmercouris
maybe that is what I should do, just include a shellscript that creates a binary
13:13:41
AeroNotix
jmercouris: https://github.com/AeroNotix/lispkit/blob/2482dbeabc79667407dabe7765dfbffc16584b08/Makefile#L96-L106
13:14:18
AeroNotix
https://github.com/AeroNotix/lispkit/blob/2482dbeabc79667407dabe7765dfbffc16584b08/make-image.lisp
13:16:25
AeroNotix
Right now I'm kind of focusing on IRL projects. I've got a couple of cars I am working on.
13:18:52
AeroNotix
https://photos.app.goo.gl/BTEuDXN3qx8olPf63 then someone used it for their wedding
13:19:57
AeroNotix
yeah it is, I love the size difference. It really does embody the different attitudes between English and American people
13:32:02
AeroNotix
wow I'm quite surprised that lispkit still builds with no issues. Guess the work in QL and my effort to automate it paid off!
13:44:53
AeroNotix
I do really like how with QL you depend on a distribution of systems rather than say a specific version of a system. It's like there's one version your application is pinned to, the whole dependency tree (all systems within QL)
15:30:36
jmercouris
anyone in here interested in working on some lisp projects together or some startup?
15:33:30
beach
I am always interested in working with others on Common Lisp projects, but I work exclusively on free software. Also, it depends on the domain, of course.
15:48:46
dlowe
jmercouris: offering me something that will convince me to do your thing instead of my thing
15:51:27
phoe
I need a snippet that will give me internal real time in milliseconds regardless of the internal-time-units-per-second value.
15:52:48
dlowe
phoe: also, are you talking about measuring durations here or getting the time of day?
15:53:22
jmercouris
alright, so in a nutshell, here is the project for your consideration: a special server to share bookmarks, active tabs, favorites, stuff like that (within an organization). it'll use "machine learning" to offer smart suggestions to users
15:55:57
jmercouris
so each client will have a local database of all the other users in the organization, and it'll serve on some localhost
15:57:38
jmercouris
beach: are any of your projects monetizable? can you turn any of them into a full time job?
15:58:23
beach
jmercouris: I haven't given it any thought, because I am not interested in making money out of my projects.
16:00:40
jackdaniel
"I have a problem with my project. What should I do? I know, I'll monetize it." - now developer had two problems
16:10:07
pjb
sure. jmercouris pays for some other projects, and we share, thanks to the internet :-)
16:10:31
phoe
people don't pay you to code in something you want, people pay you to get something they want.
16:10:38
pjb
beach: that's assuming jmercouris is not USA taxpayer, because for USA projects, WE do pay too, in all kinds of charges…
16:13:57
jackdaniel
I'm not against getting paid for work on something one likes. I'm just saying that "menetizing" things is a tedious task and if handled sloppily is a bad thing (embedded ads in software, shareware, you name it)
16:16:52
beach
jmercouris: Here is a trick that I practiced in the past. I had a job for a company where they didn't care much which language was used to get the job done. So I used Lisp (not Common Lisp though) as much as I could.
16:17:51
pjb
and even when they want a specific language, you can often use CL to write tools and generate the code for you.
16:22:08
jmercouris
I do have a strategy to find customers, I'm good at marketing, I just need to work on a product
16:22:52
pjb
Sorry, I forgot an important word: Having a business is easy: you just need to find PAYING customers.
16:25:55
pjb
And this can be done progressively. Once you have 4-5 people working for you that will make enough income so you can hire a salesman to do the job of finding paying customer for you too. Then it's automatic.
16:26:22
shrdlu68
I must admit that that sounds rather attractive. I don't understand the business though.
16:27:27
pjb
and yes, whatever the idea, there's already a ton of solutions out there. This is why the important thing is the paying customer. Once you have the money, you can hire the technicians to implement the customer's solution.
16:28:16
pjb
jmercouris: you don't need an idea. You need a paying customer. Then you do whatever he needs.
16:29:06
pjb
Well, at first, it's difficult because you have a small number of paying customer, but when you have more, you can start to fuck them, like Microsoft or Apple…
16:29:07
jmercouris
Yes, you need an idea first, then you identify potential customers, then you iterate, then you sell
16:30:08
pjb
jmercouris: you got it wrong. first paying customer, then idea for a solution, then you implement. Selling is done first: you don't start working without having the money in the bank).
16:31:26
shrdlu68
pjb: That only describes a certain subset of businesses. Like architecture, where you have to wait to get a paying client.
16:31:41
jmercouris
No, the order is: 1. Product, 2. - Customer 3. - Iterate Until 4. - 4. Conversion to Paying Customer
16:32:35
jmercouris
yes, true, so, finally, last statement, anyone who is legitimately interested in working on some sort of business or something, please pm me
17:35:55
jmercouris
Shinmera: I see you've already been working on next :D https://github.com/Shinmera/NexT
17:37:59
jmercouris
Shinmera: I looked through your software, and the only really monetizable thing I could see was Radiance or Flow
17:42:45
borodust
jmercouris: yes, indeed i am, but i see Shinmera already answered all your questions :)
18:38:50
mfiano
How would I query the pprint dispatch table to see if there is already an entry present, so that I can supply the proper priority argument with a call to SET-PPRINT-DISPATCH?
18:41:12
mfiano
I just discovered that since mathkit is being pulled into my image, it is causing matrices to be pretty-printed *with the wrong transposition*.
18:48:27
mfiano
That's not possible. I would need to know all the type aliases defined. Can't simply set '(simple-array single-float (16)) function to nil
18:49:58
Shinmera
Well you would similarly have to test for all type aliases to do your priority thingy, yeah?
18:50:50
mfiano
I'm currently just choosing an arbitrary high integer, which works, but could always fail if someone were to do the same and that was pulled into user images transitively by quicklisp
18:52:42
mfiano
and dependencies pull them in even though they are un-used, so it messes up my image
19:20:56
jackdaniel
last time I've heard about beagle: https://irclog.tymoon.eu/freenode/%23clim?around=1514876884#1514876884
19:22:07
jackdaniel
actually this is last mention on #clim (13th of January: https://irclog.tymoon.eu/freenode/%23clim?around=1515888729#1515888729)
19:23:44
jmercouris
so you'd like to just replace all backends with an SDL one? or just the one for OSX?
19:23:45
jackdaniel
but truth to be told we have some code for beagle backend (cocoa-based) and no code for sdl
19:24:37
jackdaniel
why replace? I want to have a portable backend which will work on all major platforms. currently only one backend works (and it is CLX in two flavours)
19:25:27
jackdaniel
I'm also writing (mostly for fun and documentation purposes) ncurses backend, but that should be taken more as a curiousity than a work which would benefit programmers society ;-)
19:26:38
jmercouris
aka did the original author mcclim implement CLX, and therefore that's what we're working with?
19:27:33
jackdaniel
also I would be displeased if everybody would start aiming at writing 10 backends at the same time
19:28:29
jackdaniel
yes, there is a huge reason - clx is pure CL software, so you can fully start it from (say) QL
19:28:42
jackdaniel
SDL backend would be a bunch of cffi bindings depending on libraries installed on a system
20:26:10
aeth
The ideal approach would probably be directly write to Linux, Windows, and macOS APIs (through some written-in-CL portability layer, of course) so no third party library is required (afaik).
21:04:21
TMA
aeth: SDL is not that heavyweight (could be worse) for the OpenGL and related there is glop https://github.com/lispgames/glop
21:12:11
jmercouris
I wish there was a way like in other langs where you could set a breakpoint in emacs
21:24:39
supernets_
WOW GUYS THIS PARTY @ IRC.SUPERNETS.ORG #SUPERBOWL IS STILL GOING ON!! CAN YOU BELIEVE IT??? CHRONO WANTS YOU TO JOIN THE FUN COME NOW!!
21:24:43
supernets_
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21:24:47
supernets_
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supernets_
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21:24:55
supernets_
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21:24:59
supernets_
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21:25:03
supernets_
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21:25:07
supernets_
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21:29:03
Shinmera
Well, my blog site allows you to make posts in markdown and produces cached pages.
21:29:35
dlowe
I made one for myself a long time ago. It was pretty neat - it would "expand" custom html tags, so I could write my site in html and then compile it to look fancy
21:32:50
Shinmera
jmercouris: There's other systems (like Staple) that do similar things but tailored towards specific concerns. I have not written anything that is very general, because that's just a matter of doing some HTML wrangling and writing to file, which can be done in like a single line with lQuery.
21:35:26
jmercouris
I'm using a templating language, that's based on (sexpr) e.g. (:body (:h1 "Some text")) and then there are vars you can set, these vars can be interpreted strings through pandoc
21:36:22
jmercouris
whoman: I think maybe "Interesting, a very different approach compared to mine" or something like that
22:59:43
jasom
anybody know what abcl does during initialization? It takes 8 hours to run on Doppio...
23:08:03
phoe
jasom: are you sure you are running it on a JVM that has a compiler, not just an interpreter?
23:08:52
jasom
phoe: I know nothing about the implementation of the JVM I'm running it on, except it's several orders of magnitude slower than what I'm used to.
23:10:32
jasom
the paper claims 24x-48x slower for compute bounded tasks, and simple benchmarks prove that, but I'm seeing much bigger slowdowns for abcl.
23:33:29
jasom
huh, once abcl is up in doppio, it runs relatively fast; 20x slower to calculate 1000th fibonacci vs native jvm
0:04:32
lerax
There is a portable way to use threads with Common Lisp? Currently I'm using the sb-thread: package from sbcl, but this is not a nice solution because is SBCL only.
0:06:48
lerax
This is the official docs https://trac.common-lisp.net/bordeaux-threads/wiki/ApiDocumentation right?
0:12:18
billitch
now i'm stuck rewriting stream classes because evented io is not supported by ansi cl streams