freenode/#lisp - IRC Chatlog
Search
11:31:09
namra
i'm pretty new to lisp and trying to read from a stream (that is returned instead of a string) as the response body of a get request using dexador
11:33:16
namra
thought that actually doesn't read anything from the stream, and i just can't figure out why
11:46:48
namra
i don't know if some of the dexador code read from the stream prior, which actually doesn't seem reasonable because it wouldn't make sense to return the stream than. though any code i wrote doesn't read from it prior to that.
11:52:33
FareTower
I know of babel. If you M-. on BABEL:UNICODE-CHAR it should take you to the definition.
11:58:28
namra
(make-array 1024 :fill-pointer 0 :adjustable t :element-type (stream-element-type response))
11:59:13
FareTower
maybe instead you should save the value given by read-sequence, and use it to set fill-pointer, or something
12:00:35
namra
the hyperspec states that read-sequence returns the position into the sequence (basically how many chars in this case have been read), but it always returns 0
12:06:58
FareTower
and yes, if alexandria doesn't have a read-sequence-extend function, maybe you can contribute it. Or to another library
12:09:26
FareTower
yes, it does, but this gentleman is reading from a stream. Maybe he wants slurp-stream-string.
12:09:33
shrdlu68
There doesn't seem to be a "maxcol" print arg to the ~D format directive. How does one limit the maximum width?
12:24:08
namra
shrdlu68: maybe you can achieve that with a conditional format directive, where the first argument checks if the number is to large
17:02:25
jmercouris
Xach: Is there a way to fetch the latest upstream version of a project available in quicklisp?
17:02:44
Xach
jmercouris: not directly, but all upstream sources are tracked in the quicklisp-projects github repo
17:09:19
jmercouris
Xach: I remember you told me some time ago, but let's say you have something installed via quicklisp, and something in your local-projects dir, how does ql decide which to load?
17:10:25
jmercouris
i guess that makes sense, becaause the user would have to manually do that meaning that is likely their intent
17:38:43
jmercouris
papachan: What do you mean better? if we don't know what the program is supposed to do, what is better or worse? You need to provide some context
18:46:13
Xach
This is a little tongue in cheek. Macros are the only reason I can imagine for allowing an empty setq/setf
18:56:09
kolb
is there a name for this (imho defining) property of Lisp that things like `(setf ,@bindings) work? This is how I got to appreciate it the most: http://people.cs.uchicago.edu/~wiseman/humor/large-programs.html
18:58:25
kolb
phoe: no I mean the fact that nil is a boolean, a symbol, a list, the "null value", things like (setq) work, ...
19:19:31
rme
In a way, I kind of like CL's weird things. It's like the people of Amsterdam who eat herring from the street vendors: it's weird to outsiders, but the locals like it.
19:27:55
FareTower
rme: I love CL, but I recognize it and its community are dysfunctional in many ways
19:29:59
FareTower
maybe attracted to lisp precisely because it can do so much with so little collaboration
19:33:45
warweasle
FareTower: I mean things like "true" and "false". print and such. People expect it.
19:44:49
rme
I'm trying to look in the mirror to see if I'm autistic, neophobic, and quirky. Maybe I'm a little neophobic, but that's partly because change is inevitable but progress is not.
19:46:51
FareTower
lispers like to boast about all the innovation that lisp was about, but do precious little innovation these days
19:48:57
makomo
i always wonder whether such a thing could be true. i mean, it's not like any such essays have any data to back up their claims
19:49:21
warweasle
FareTower: Well, we just add changes on top of the others. And we make a mud-ball.
19:49:54
rme
I don't like those "lispers are bipolar" or " lispers have asperger's" essays and talks. They are not true and not helpful.
19:55:13
loli
how bad of an idea is it to pass a dynamic variable down to do method/function dispatch? Is there another method that will allow me to change what a function means after the fact?
19:56:19
Xach
loli: using special variables for that is pretty common, e.g. *print-case* changes behavior
19:56:19
loli
I'm using dynamic variables to be <>, bar, and mempty ie simulating the monoid for my finger tree
19:57:38
loli
I'm using a secondary struct for users to make their own finger tree, the issue is that with the lazy eval,I have to overload every function for the correct values to be gotten
19:57:44
jmercouris
rme: +1 those essays are bullshit, most likely not even written by lisp developers
19:58:46
phoe
FareTower: I was, and am. Currently on hiatus because of real life taking up most of my real life CPU time.
19:58:50
jmercouris
FareTower: It's in progress, when it is done, it will be done (temporarily on hold)
19:59:38
phoe
FareTower: it evolves on its own pace. It's a slow pace, but then again, things are not done unless someone does them, and Lisp does not have many* people who have the will, energy and time to do them.
20:01:17
FareTower
a lot of CL hackers could each put 2 days proof-reading / annotating / whatever a small part of the the CLHS
20:01:22
phoe
FareTower: I was complaining about exactly this thing a day ago perhaps, you can search the #lisp logs.
20:02:19
FareTower
I've met people who explained that they learned PHP because it had a great community and great documentation. These can do wonders even for a shitty language.
20:03:02
phoe
the CL cookbook has a lot of fresh and awesome content, when it comes to *new* documentation
20:05:28
phoe
Things like https://lispcookbook.github.io/cl-cookbook/error_handling.html are all fresh stuff.
20:08:47
makomo
FareTower: i saw that post of yours where you mentioned that (a mailing list, i forgot which one)
20:14:20
phoe
FareTower: I really want to finish my Lisp documentation project and make it go live despite all the delays, especially since "every year there's a new kid in the block who wants to curate CL libraries. So far, Xach is an exception in actually doing it and sticking to it year after year."
20:36:23
phoe
upsides: there's obviously energy and will to be spent, because if people have the energy to constructively complain, then they have the energy to make things better
20:36:53
phoe
downsides: it's trivial to let people down in this scenario since if there's nothing they can attach their frustrations and wishes for a better state of things to, they'll just leave
20:37:27
phoe
but heh, this thing has been discussed 9001 times before, half of which happened on #lisp
20:40:05
FareTower
phoe: I spent all my non-mercenary CL energy. But I want to leave the place in a better state than I found it, so I'm probably gonna stick until ASDF 3.3.2 is released that fixes the regressions with 3.3.1
20:48:01
FareTower
most people don't seem to notice... hard to tell whether it's success (seamless experience) or failure (no one cares)
20:49:36
phoe
I never realized how important it is to value people's work until I finally noticed how God damn hard, annoying and exhausting it is to ship working, polished software, as compared to happy hacking.
20:50:53
phoe
Which came with some experience. I had to learn this, valuing people's work, and I had to learn it by hours of bugfixing, coding, listening to people's requests, complaints, whines, praises and weird stuff I'd rather not mention here.
20:51:27
phoe
so, huh, it might sound pretty weird, but I stopped really expecting "normal bread-eaters" to notice how much work it takes to deliver something that works as expected.
20:52:13
phoe
well, a part of my work is that it makes vroom vrrrroooooom sounds. but also that it doesn't explode in all the various configurations for this person, other people, or other circumstances.
20:52:46
phoe
this, and also how much time it takes to bugfix stuff as compared to implementing new features. this ratio only goes higher and higher over time, too.
20:54:11
phoe
so it's pretty damn weird, but, "most people don't seem to notice... hard to tell whether it's success (seamless experience) or failure (no one cares)" - I'd agree with most of it except the last part
20:54:27
phoe
people tend to care, they just rarely have any idea of how the whole process looks like
20:54:53
phoe
even if they understand basic programming, they think that software developers are doing programming, where they are actually doing software development