freenode/#lisp - IRC Chatlog
Search
6:54:19
whoman
is there a way to create a graph of lisp forms, like "box notation" from gentle introduction to symbol computation ?
7:12:16
whoman
"The Common Lisp standard specifies the interface between a Lisp implementation and the editor it provides. The interface is a function called ED."
7:17:16
aeth
Implementation-specific. Doesn't work in SBCL out of the box, but describe gives me enough information. Looks like in sbcl it uses *ed-functions*
7:17:25
aeth
(setf *ed-functions* (list (lambda (x) (declare (ignore x)) (uiop:run-program "emacs"))))
7:17:39
aeth
That almost works, errors on exit, though. I'd also need to figure out how to use its argument.
7:18:05
aeth
It's probably not used enough for there to be a trivial-ed package that makes all this easy.
7:19:13
whoman
; Evaluation aborted on #<TYPE-ERROR expected-type: (OR CONS (VECTOR CHARACTER) (VECTOR NIL) BASE-STRING PATHNAME SYMBOL)
8:37:41
schweers
minion: memo for phoe: I do read manuals from time to time in order to spot things I missed on earlier passes (or didn’t understand yet), but that setting was still not something I was aware of.
8:40:40
borodust
Xach: tried on a different machine (macbook pro 2012, no homebrew, no devtools, probably nothing that could potentially pollute environment) and guess what? it worked D:
8:41:52
borodust
Xach: on that note, I have another suggestion, but i need to get back to my dev machine to update the code (basically, just supress SBCL FPE check) and push it, so in a few hours
9:15:01
jdz
I used Hemlock (most likely with CMUCL) in 2003, was working just fine. I even came up with an initfile (http://www.ltn.lv/~jonis/.hemlock-init.lisp).
9:20:06
knobo3
How can I insert null in to a column with postmodern dao? Nil becomes false, not null :(
11:59:47
Xach
dim: http://report.quicklisp.org/2017-12-06/failure-report/pgloader.html#pgloader -- that's with sbcl from git, which uses asdf 3.3.1
12:26:29
knobo3
I experience a big delay when restarting one of my caveman projects on my development server that runs sbcl 1.4.2
12:31:44
Xach
dim: I tried using asdf 3.3.1 to test things, but these problems did not immediately present themselves.
12:39:16
jmercouris
This isn't a strictly lisp question, but within my browser, I have a global-map (as in emacs), I've named it global-map for consistency with emacs, but I'm thinkig about making it *global-map* to be consistent with lisp
12:40:39
jmercouris
Yeah, my other code has earmuffs, but I was thinking of making exceptions for emacs specific variables to avoid confusing people
12:41:00
jmercouris
I think earmuffs for all global vars for more consistency is more important than confusing a few emacs users
12:41:21
jmercouris
ecraven: Yeah, it MIGHT be a little less confusing in the beginning for some familiar variables, but more confusing in the long run
12:41:26
ecraven
also, it's not emacs, is it? so unless you want to emulate more, I wouldn't care about just a few variables
12:41:56
knobo3
Does it load the same project multiple times? https://gist.github.com/knobo/de67a3ab9a55b9b8ab423c75f33936f7
12:42:16
mercourisj
It's not emacs exactly, and emacs is in elisp, this is in lisp, so I should follow lisp convention
12:44:19
mercourisj
ecraven: No, I absolutely agree, it makes a lot of sense, and I hadn't thought of that before, so thank you
12:45:22
TMA
mercourisj: jmercouris: you can point emacs users to a file with a (define-symbol-macro global-map *global-map*) they can load if they wish
12:48:17
jmercouris
I will only personally support webkit on Linux though as I fundamentally do not trust google
12:55:14
TMA
mercourisj: jmercouris: you can point emacs users to a file with a (define-symbol-macro global-map *global-map*) they can load if they wish [this perhaps did not come through]
12:55:38
jmercouris
TMA: Ah, yes I did not see your message earlier, I guess I was disconnected at the time
12:56:28
jmercouris
TMA: so maybe some package they can install that loads a whole bunch of these expansions written out for common vars?
12:57:22
jmercouris
TMA: Maybe I didn't say that correctly, but something akin to package-install, where they can install something that makes "alias" from some special set of vars (emacs specific global ones) to the ear muff version?
12:59:16
jmercouris
I'm starting to feel like Linus now that I have actual users, I can't just break userspace whenever I feel like it
13:01:00
TMA
jmercouris: something like an emacs-compatibility-layer, yes. I think that it might be a package that will be separate, contain the aliases and the users could just (use-package ...) it themselves
13:02:24
TMA
jmercouris: the support burden needs to be considered. Personally I am not convinced that a non-emacs application shall cater to such emacs-specific taste preferences.
13:03:25
pjb
jmercouris: I would (defvar *global-map*) and (define-symbol-macro global-map *global-map*)
13:04:01
TMA
jmercouris: it will just invite "where is the rest of elisp?" and "why haven't you done it as an emacs package?" questions.
13:04:13
pjb
jmercouris: However, this would have the property of letting local bindings to global-map be lexical bindings. Perhaps not what you'd want.
13:04:18
jmercouris
TMA: Lol, that would be funny to see wouldn't it :D I'm already getting questions about Evil
13:05:51
jmercouris
pjb: I've looked at the source extensively already actually :D when I was trying to figure out how to get to stop eating my commands when in the REPL, as well as how to support copy/paste integration
13:06:38
pjb
I would advise to stick to the *convention*. It will let you avoid losing hours debugging strange bugs.
13:08:22
jmercouris
pjb: I'll just pretend I'm not aware of the discrepancy and leave it as earmuffs for now then :P if some emacs user comes across this log at a later time, they can proceed at their own risk :D
13:54:08
minion
schweers, memo from phoe: I know, I was kidding about the manuals. I keep on finding new gems and pearls inside ALEXANDRIA whose manual I've read tens of times and even inside CL.
13:59:23
tfb
schweers: CCL's editor is hemlock, so, yes (I don't know how far it has diverged from other hemlocks)
14:39:05
Xach
Shinmera: halftone has some trouble too -- http://report.quicklisp.org/2017-12-06/failure-report/halftone.html#halftone
14:46:50
Shinmera
Xach: That's the same error as for lionchat. It's from the qt-libs asd, and I still don't understand what it's doing.
14:48:23
Shinmera
:shrug: I can't tell you what's going on. I can't reproduce it, nor explain it in any way.
15:04:36
Shinmera
But that shouldn't have anything to do with the error that's in your failure report. That one is just complete nonsense to me still.
15:07:19
Xach
Now, I could see an argument that halftone is not to blame and it's a breaking UI change in uiop or asdf or something.
15:18:43
eudoxia
the stamp< thing is something Fare reported: https://twitter.com/Ngnghm/status/937885821272756226
15:47:28
jmercouris
Seems to be using some RB somehow, maybe there is an RB to SED transpiler they are using
15:51:30
jmercouris
Zhivago: What do you mean? I have no idea if he wrote it in ruby and just committed the sed, or literally wrote it in sed, there's no way for me to know actually
15:52:03
Zhivago
What I mean is how can you tell if a program is a transpiler or if it is a compiler?
15:53:36
Bike
the documentation suggests that the ruby file is a different implementation of the same thing (lisp via convoluted text editing)
15:56:28
mercourisj
Zhivago: My best guess (not being a compiler expert or anything) is that a transpiler goes from language a -> language b, whereas a compiler will go from language a -> machine code
16:00:10
waynecolvin
all compilers transform source code to object code, just sometimes the output is text files for further processing
16:00:50
mercourisj
I'll just leave this here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Source-to-source_compiler
16:01:58
Zhivago
wayne: So, a compiler which outputs assembly is a transpiler? But a compiler which includes an assembler and outputs the result of assembly is a compiler?
16:02:43
Zhivago
mercourisj: We have compilers from one machine code to another. Therefore machine code is source code. Therefore all compilers are transpilers?
16:05:26
jmercouris
Zhivago: See: "A source-to-source compiler translates between programming languages that operate at approximately the same level of abstraction, while a traditional compiler translates from a higher level programming language to a lower level programming language."
16:06:59
Bike
well, you brought it up, so if you want to argue about it go ahead i guess. except not since it's definitely off topic.
16:08:10
Zhivago
jmercouris: Ok, so would a lisp to C compiler be a compiler, but a lisp to C compiler be a transpiler?