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6:13:40
clintm
Maybe I'm doing things wrong. I'm totally open to that. I hit some sort of deadlock in sbcl (i got the latest dist., but didn't rebuild it), and I can't get ccl to (quit) after loading a system.
6:41:24
beach
shka_: Non-proper nouns in singular form must usually take an article in English. You have tons of such instances in your documentation. Do you want to fix them first, or do you want me to find all of them for you.
6:42:39
beach
I started, but I found myself writing an item for each instance mentioned above, and it got boring.
6:43:43
beach
I have a list of all the occurrences in the first section. Do you want me to email it to you?
6:45:18
shka_
as for your question, obviously, you are wasting your time and in order to improve my skills i have to do it myself
6:46:06
beach
Well, it would be easier on me (and other readers), if you made a pass over the entire thing and fixed those occurrences.
6:47:05
beach
Polish is your native language, right? It seems like other speakers of Polish have the same problem.
6:49:16
beach
Interesting. I am saying that because "knowing" is one thing, and being able to actually use it is another. I "know" the difference between infinitive and participle in French, but I often make the mistake anyway.
6:49:53
beach
... so I have to read what I wrote very carefully, without trying to understand it. Just to check the grammar.
6:51:44
beach
We need a free grammar checker written in Common Lisp, but that would be another biggish project.
6:55:53
beach
That would be great. Then I can spend more time on the real issues in a fixed-up version.
6:57:24
clintm
:( I thought grammarly was at least partially implemented in CL. From the looks of the open positions, it's java these days.
6:58:29
beach
clintm: That could be. It wouldn't be the first time ignorant programmers decide to rewrite software, rather than fixing their ignorance by learning the language.
7:02:57
hajovonta
well, CL is good for quick prototyping of data structures and ideas. But when the product grows, the development gets more serious. I mean, the company hires more people to work on the software, development loops are established and so on. I guess there are areas where CL is not suitable for the current trendy workflows and practices.
7:04:36
hajovonta
don't get me wrong, I always start my projects in CL. But now I'm a situation where my project is really usable and my manager wants me to figure it out how can other people use it.
7:06:18
hajovonta
And the simple answer is: learn Emacs and CL, then several libraries like Hunchentoot or Smackjack, then have it configured like this, and you are good to go.
7:07:09
hajovonta
loke: yes, when several people are working on the project, the workflow needs to be such that the stupider people can use it
7:09:41
hajovonta
but this "simple" approach might be very hard for others, so I think great CL projects are rewritten in another language after a while, because there are not so many CL programmers out there
7:10:53
hajovonta
also, where CL really shines, is the quick prototyping and incremental compiling just to name a few, and after the idea is polished and implemented, it's not that hard to rewrite it
7:12:43
hajovonta
Shinmera: I mean when the best approach is already worked out in CL, then that approach can be relatively easily implemented in other languages
7:13:31
hajovonta
more easily than having to work the approach out in that other language from the beginning
13:06:19
dlowe
paule32: that looks correct. you might want to just specify &key if you aren't going to use NAME
13:09:16
beach
dlowe: It looks like shit. Wrong spacing, dangling parentheses, wrong number of semicolons, form without side effects in a context of no value, invalid form. All in 10 lines of code or so. But like I said, paule32 is not known to follow advice.
13:14:18
dlowe
actually, there is one error in there. the ' should be on the parenthesis, not on 'kallup-exec-app
13:31:29
Josh_2
Personally as much as beach tearing into everything I do, it's actually very beneficial to have someone crap on your code. As long as they show you how to do it properly
13:31:55
dlowe
code is especially awful when you're trying to figure something out and are just trying to get the one thing working
13:43:36
Bike
next time please work out something like that on your own. it should have been kind of obvious, and with the information you chose to share with us, due to your belief that it was some kind of lisp problem, we couldn't have noticed it.
13:47:25
Xach
Anyone have time & inclination to help me troubleshoot a weird problem I'm having with (I think) UIOP 3.3.0?
13:49:03
Xach
Basically trying to see if a weird looping problem I'm seeing is a local issue or can be reproduced easily.
13:49:55
Xach
shka: can you fetch lhttps://common-lisp.net/project/asdf/archives/uiop.tar.gz and put it in ~/quicklisp/local-projects/ ?
13:50:29
Xach
Not yet - now clear your cache with rm -rf ~/.cache/common-lisp/ and (ql:quickload "hu.dwim.presentation" :verbose t)
13:50:58
Xach
What I observe is certain (maybe all?) files in uiop being recompiled over and over and over again.
13:52:21
jackdaniel
UIOP will be loaded as a system (because ASDF doesn't treat preloaded-systems as loaded)
13:53:23
jackdaniel
I think that it will load over again on each new session, because UIOP is preloaded, so found system definition is found somewhere-else (hence redefinition warnings)
13:54:33
jackdaniel
correct solution to that problem would be naming UIOP system and package (when bundled with asdf) something like ASDF/UIOP, so it is treated differently than UIOP library
13:54:41
Xach
jackdaniel: this seems to be a new behavior, because prior to 3.3.0 it did not work this way
14:09:52
paule32
that is my smallest program ever coded in Lisp: http://paste.lisp.org/display/358310#4
14:34:53
Bike
I think "M-x slime" and then answering yes you want to create a second *inferior-lisp* does it.
14:36:39
antoszka
hajovonta: so that's *not* another instance, but you'd like to reuse the same instance/image with another swank listener?
15:00:37
jackdaniel
(try (do "1234") (it "+") (yourself "2223834")) ; ← one of many possible solutions (arguably the best one)
15:01:47
Bike
you can get symbols from strings with find-symbol, and integers from strings with parse-integer.
15:02:14
dlowe
paule32: there's an entire field of programming called parsing that you should read up on
15:48:05
emaczen`
with CFFI since pointers=arrays shouldn't I be able to call #'cffi:foreign-array-to-lisp on every pointer?
15:48:05
minion
emaczen`, memo from ferada: static variables via jss are like #"ClassName.fieldName"
15:48:06
minion
emaczen`, memo from ferada: jstatic is for static methods; if it doesn't find the method then the signature didn't match; re the jna warnings, you do have jna loaded? after (require 'jna) the call (jclass "com.sun.jna.Native") should give you something
16:53:29
phf
hello, does anybody know if you can make capi's browser-pane (lispworks) display html explicitly, without doing (..-navigate url)?
16:54:13
phoe_
phf: best ask on LispWorks's forums - they'll be able to answer CAPI questions much quicker
16:54:48
phoe_
they have a community forum specialized for LW, where Freenode's much more specialized in general standard CL questions and those related to free/open implementations
16:55:56
phf
phoe_: i like to test the limit of #lisp's question answering abilities. fwiw i get roughly the same quality of answers for free/open implementations as i do for commercial ones, that is to say "low"
16:56:52
beach
phf: Most questions about free implementations are answered to the best ability of the participants.
16:58:26
beach
phf: Contrary to common belief, #lisp is not a "Lisp support channel". It is a forum for people who use and develop Common Lisp software, so its main purpose is not to answer questions about implementations.
17:00:08
beach
phf: What you said is quite insulting to many people who spend a lot of time trying to help out whenever someone needs it.
17:03:08
phf
beach: well, i used to spend time on #lisp answering questions, and being a professional lisp developer i would suspect that my answers were worthwhile. i find that the s/n has dropped significantly, but that's ~my~ impressions, and that's why i don't lurk here. i periodically drop by to ask questions though, which is selfish of me, but i also want to see if there's perhaps some change in the landscape
17:04:30
phf
beach: i appreciate all the work ~you~ and others that i can name specifically did for #lisp and lisp community though. i also apologize for baiting. an answer "go elsewhere" is mildly annoying though, because i know for a fact there are people who do professional lispworks dev lurking here
17:06:38
phf
Bike: i agree, i usually wait though until i find the answer to then also answer my own question in case anyone was curious, and/or reading the logs
17:07:21
jackdaniel
paid software comes with paid support, free software has to depend on people donating their free time
17:12:08
phf
Bike: well, i'm not talking about ~quality of support~ here, but rather the s/n. it would be entirely silly of me to come to #lisp and expect correct answer!
17:14:45
phf
well, in that case i will then just add that if the only thing you have in your browser widget is a url browsing function, then adding a local webserver and hosting ad hoc pages is one solution, but i'd like it to be that of last resort..
17:22:33
drmeister
I was looking at the Google paper on energy efficiency of different languages paper again.
17:23:04
drmeister
The guy who wrote the Lisp (using SBCL) examples took a lot of pains to improve performance.
17:23:05
drmeister
https://github.com/greensoftwarelab/Energy-Languages/blob/master/Lisp/mandelbrot/mandelbrot.lisp
17:27:11
drmeister
Kudos to the programmer and... is this what needs to be done to get the 'ultimate' in performance?
17:28:37
drmeister
Lisp is the fastest, most efficient dynamic language - much, much better than Python.
17:32:49
phoe_
drmeister: the "ultimate" in performance is basically either writing as close to compiler-optimized routines as you can or writing as close to assembly as you can
17:38:29
Harag
I have never really used trace but tonight I need to get to grips with it, I started (tried in repl and slime emacs menus) a trace on a function called by an a hunchentoot page but I am not seeing any output of the trace anywhere. What would "block" trace output to repl or slime trace buffer?
17:42:46
phoe_
drmeister: http://benchmarksgame.alioth.debian.org/u64q/program.php?test=mandelbrot&lang=sbcl&id=3 is (almost) completely portable though and it's twice as slow as the version you linked.
17:43:24
phoe_
Harag: can you DECLAIM NOTINLINE the function that you are trying to trace and recompile the callers of that function?
17:43:52
phf
Harag: you want to look into *inferior-lisp* buffer, that's where the trace is most likely being output
17:48:02
phf
Harag: your hunchentoot handlers are running in own threads, where various output streams are ~not~ bound to the swank ones, so you want to look at the buffer where the actual sbcl process output goes
17:56:43
Harag
that trace out put is a real let down two lines and the out put of the function if I want to see whats going on inside do I have to trace every one of the functions used inside it?