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14:45:38
beach
capitaomorte: People might be reluctant to answer such a question. It is better that you state what your issue is directly.
14:46:47
capitaomorte
beach: Fair enough... I need someone to run a short snippet from the command line to try to reproduce a bug
14:48:09
capitaomorte
beach: that's the point, I don't but I think a regression happened in that version
14:49:16
capitaomorte
In SLY (and SLIME) autodoc has apparently stopped showing default values for &key args in defmacro
14:50:25
capitaomorte
Bike: Thanks. great. Or actually, not great. I just wanted someone else to try because in sbcl-devel they say they can't reproduce it
14:57:39
capitaomorte
mfiano: thanks. I think I know what the culprit commit is but compiling SBCL is too much hassle for me right now because of some gcc woes.
15:09:26
capitaomorte
Curiously, the sbcl maintainer states that the behaviour I reported for on 1.3.16 and 1.3.18 "is irrelevant" to the issue
15:23:20
Xach
Hmm, can you think of a big-ish library or application in Quicklisp that isn't super platform-dependent?
15:23:48
Xach
(trying for something physically big, or with a lot of deps, to test out performance on validating tarballs and such)
15:29:46
dim
but I don't have a windows setup, so it's been broken at times, and also you need freetds.dll (protocol implementation for MS SQL Server) which I don't know where to find for windows
15:43:58
stylewarning
stassats advice is often poor, only good if you manage to convince him your problem matters/is interesting, and you frame your question to his satisfaction
15:47:16
capitaomorte
but that was the hardest ever bug I had to report yet, and it seemed pretty easy
15:47:27
stylewarning
Shinmera: this is assuming he has communicated something that, given sufficient time, can be understood to be something reasonable. This can be true but is often not.
15:48:00
stylewarning
I'm just happy he takes care of SBCL, so I don't care if he's immediately helpful to folks', including my, problems.
15:50:03
capitaomorte
Shinmera: that put a smile on my tired-of-bug-reporting face, go to go now, thanks
15:58:39
pjb
Xach: you would have to define "super platform-dependent". You may have systems that run only on a single platform, but that would require only adding a single line to make it run on another platform. On the other hand, you may have systems that run on half a dozen platforms, but to make it run on another platform you would have to touch every lines of source and the asd files!
16:00:57
stylewarning
I like how when a Lisper doesn't know the answer to a question, he/she just retorts with another question indicating the original question was far too underspecified, and if only it were more specified, the purported answerer would be able to share his/her answer.
16:08:59
whyNOP
I'm being stupid, ignore that lol just replying to stylewarning about specifications.
16:10:01
beach
whyNOP: I thought you were just giving an example of what stylewarning said, so I gave one more.
16:10:25
jasom
stylewarning: to be fair, pjb pretty much always claims the question is underspecified, even when he knows the answer to the question.
16:10:27
stylewarning
whyNOP: Xach asked a perfectly fine question, only to be rebuffed by pjb asking for all these terms to be defined and such. But the fact of the matter is that even if the terms were defined, pjb probably could not offer a sensible answer, unless it is a part of his own collection. ;)
16:12:30
jasom
JuanDaugherty: I've not had the chance to see that yet; it's the play that made Williams famous though
16:18:53
JuanDaugherty
nice if there was a lisp matrix thing ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Matrix_(communication_protocol) )
16:23:27
emaczen
beach: that is what I thought, but for some reason my program seems to get hung up there
16:24:02
beach
It is possible that your implementation has a particularly bad NCONC, but it is unlikely.
16:27:25
pjb
Do you really want to destructively concatenate them? This will often lead to infinite loops and other hang ups.
16:28:02
pjb
There's a faster way to concatenate lists… Assuming you can and want to do it by mutating them, you just need to keep references to the head and tail of the list. Then it can be done in O(1).
16:28:51
beach
emaczen: Clearly, pjb is right in that the time is proportional to the length of the first list.
16:28:55
emaczen
pjb: Yes I have my own linked-lists built that will concatenate in O(1) maybe I'll look into that in a second if this doesn't get any better
16:30:59
emaczen
pjb: Yep, those nconcs have messed me up subsequently (probably infinite circular lists) after I stopped the program and tried something else
16:33:46
beach
emaczen: That is exactly what pjb warned you about. If there is shared structure between the two lists, it can become very messy.
16:43:17
JuanDaugherty
turned out apparently there isn't a lisp matrix anything, it's too new I guess
16:50:11
dim
it would be possible I guess to offer a pgloader with only MySQL or only MS SQL support, from the same sources?
16:50:57
dim
pjb: my basis for popularity of pgloader is number of stars on github and frequency of bug reports
18:20:46
Fare
dim: process data it knows nothing about? Oh no, is it an AI trying to replace human programmers?
18:37:02
Fare
and if you need a lot of append's, single-linked lists are not the correct data structure
18:38:19
Fare
ACTION is reminded of how ASDF 1 was O(n^3) or O(n^4) on large flat systems... and exponential on deep systems using conditional dependencies.
19:40:12
dim
Fare: data loader tool for PostgreSQL, input are csv, dbf files, sqlite, mysql, mssql databases, target is end users, not programmers
19:40:40
dim
no AI, but still processing data it knowns nothing about, and data the developer knows nothing about
19:47:41
Xach
heh, testing SBCL vs CCL in a quicklisp dist that enables full pgp signing of metadata and SHA checks of downloads.
19:48:12
Xach
ccl turns out to be way faster on a big system because although its crypto verification is slower, its compiler is way way faster.
21:11:35
jasom
which version of sbcl? It has improved compile times in the past year somewhat IIRC, but yeah ccl is a much faster compiler in general
21:27:04
didi
So, fun times. (defun foo () ...) (defun bar () (flet ((foo () ...)) (mapcar 'foo ...))). I wanted to call FOO from `flet', but instead I was calling FOO from global.
21:30:10
Shinmera
I feel like exactly this has been discussed at least four times in the past two weeks
22:07:18
didi
mfiano: The difference between #' and ', specially where it matters, isn't much clear to me yet.
22:08:51
mfiano
I always use #' to be explicit in my intent, so this rarely comes up for me, but I was aware of it.
22:20:46
pjb
didi: flet is a lexical binding, it doesn't touch the symbol-function of the function name.
22:28:08
didi
pjb: oic. So in the `mapcar' case, it has more to do with `mapcar' coercing a symbol than `flet'.
22:45:00
pjb
didi: notice it's not mapcar or in general the other HOF functions that resolve the function designator, but APPLY (FUNCALL calls APPLY theorically).