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17:13:18
Xach
rodriga: there is a discord lisp discussion channel that seems active, i don't know if it's more or less active than #lisp
17:17:16
rodriga
sorry if this sounds like a dumb question but how would you get a job or internship in Lisp? seems here locally its not very popular. did you guys network by first getting remote open source projects, internships, etc...? i've read On Lisp & SCIP.
17:18:59
Xach
rodriga: i liked using lisp but it was not formally part of my programming job in the past. i used common lisp to prototype things quickly and to implement internal tools where the implementation language wasn't all that critical. i also wrote a lot of code and shared it as i made my own hobby projects in common lisp. i went to conferences and chatted and emailed with people using lisp. over time i got into
17:22:23
Xach
I don't have advice for someone starting today, sorry - the world has changed a lot since i got started. I don't know if the same approach would work starting now.
17:23:33
rodriga
are there remote conferences with a good amount of socializing? Hmm, I've made lots of projects but I never bothered to blog about them. Hmm I remember that in a few lines of code if you turned clojure code from parens into <span> and <div> you could then style clojure code to look however you wanted without changing the underlying s-exprs.
17:23:36
Xach
When I was getting into learning Common Lisp, there were multiple annual international conferences, and many regional enthusiast meetings. It's really dropped off a lot since then.
17:24:42
alandipert
otoh, programmers have never been in higher demand, and information has never been as accessible
17:26:11
rodriga
yeah, but it seems that a lot of the in demand jobs are for technology that won't last long
17:30:36
rodriga
after reading SCIP and On Lisp and thinking about weird things like modifying Eval or Macros, I'm think Lisp is the most powerful language, and its the easiest to change your program from doing one thing to another.
17:31:54
Xach
Paradigms of AI Programming is an interesting lisp that will teach you some nice Common Lisp stuff
17:34:30
rodriga
trying to think how can I network myself into an internship or entry-level lisp job?
17:36:51
Shinmera
Wouldn't expect anything for years though unless you get super lucky or start a company yourself.
17:39:29
Josh_2
Xach: in vecto is there a way to compose colours or calculate the colours of overlaps?
17:39:41
rodriga
well do you guys have any interesting projects i can help with? There was this LightTable like plugin for emacs, and I was thinking if anybody finds those kind of environments productive (compared to Slime).
17:41:19
pjb
rodriga: take any CL project in gitlab or github and check the issues. Alternatively http://www.metamodular.net/Common-Lisp/suggested-projects.html
17:41:55
pjb
rodriga: you can also start from the systems in quicklisp, some need maintenance or documentation.
17:42:11
Shinmera
rodriga: Sure. I have a game engine https://github.com/shirakumo/trial and a UI toolkit project https://github.com/shirakumo/alloy that could use a lot of work.
17:44:06
rodriga
oh yeah i clicked that link and it says something about a library for writing GUIs, I was thinking what if you could take all your Lisp code functions and it could take the code and automatically create a (bad) GUI for scaffolding
17:46:33
rodriga
wait someone probably has already thought of that, rails creates scaffolds from your model, maybe they got the idea form somewhere else
17:51:55
Shinmera
The other devs and I hang out in #shirakumo on Freenode here to discuss the development of it and questions surrounding it, if you want to lurk.
17:55:50
rodriga
Shinmera: sou ieba nihonjin desuka? mae ni nihongo nourroku shiken N2 ni gougaku shitandesukedo...
18:03:19
Josh_2
Well tbf if I hadn't made the variable an empty hash table then it would have overwritten by backup as well
18:12:29
semz
Is there a nice way to set *print-length* only for the representations in Slime? I don't want to set it globally but am rather sick of slowing Emacs down to a crawl whenever a returned list is large.
18:12:40
rodriga
oh yeah is Emacs sorf of like a Lisp OS like Smalltalk's Pharo? How hard is it to build a compatibility layer that can convet Emacls Lisp code to Common Lisp and Common Lisp code to Emacs Lisp?
18:18:27
pjb
rodriga: there's an emacs-cl CL implementation targetting emacs lisp that has bit-rotten since GNU emacs has lexical bindings. You could update it.
19:00:52
rodriga
does lisp have something like haskell's papers? its a good way to learn new new cutting edge programming techniques.
19:05:08
rodriga
but isn't Lisp source like an embedded DSL? trying to reverse engineer a DSL can be hard?
19:07:49
Bike
things like LOOP that are there own language do exist, but they're not the majority of any program
20:13:06
White_Flame
rodriga: usually, the macro-based customization of CL is focused around creating the proper abstractions for your codebase, which just gives a few enhancements and interacts well with CL in a very readable way, not it's own completely separate languages
20:31:55
Josh_2
Yes, basically the old functionality just locally bound *standard-output* so that I could grab the output and send it over a socket, but then I swapped my logging system to log4cl and this obviously broke
20:38:55
jackdaniel
you will need to check that in the source code, but if I remember correctly the appender protocol consists of a single method
20:40:27
jackdaniel
that said, from what you have said you expect it to intercept messages to the standard output - that's not how log4cl works
21:42:08
Xach
phoe: I don't think it was tagged as a release on github. at least as of early this morning.
22:05:47
jcowan
I confess to not looking at examples when I read specs (they are often misleading or outright wrong in my experience)
22:06:26
Bike
well that's all i got. what it's actually been developed for so far is using it in compilers, tho.
22:06:49
jcowan
There are a few problematic specs where the examples are normative either de facto or de jure
23:23:10
jasom
Is there a library that makes a non-seekable stream (somewhat) seekable by adding buffering on top? I'm thinking something that guarantees always allowing seeking back N elements (up to the beginning, where N >> 1 and is possibly configurable)
23:28:16
mfiano
A Gray stream wrapper for that would be only a couple lines of code not even worth a library
3:30:55
jasom
mfiano: it's not the number of lines of code, it's how long it takes to write the lines of code. I've written something similar before and I had some subtle bugs with my first implementation.