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Tuesday, 24th of November 2020, 1:02:45 UTC
4:05:02
beach
Good morning everyone!
4:07:14
beach
phoe: Early for you! What's up?
4:07:24
phoe
well, my old personal statement still holds true; I can only properly wish you good morning if I don't sleep during the night
4:10:10
phoe
no, been a good and plentiful night
4:10:18
phoe
been busy earning the achievement of being proclaimed the biggest threat to the Common Lisp community right now
4:10:41
beach
Er, what? What happened?
4:11:18
phoe
https://twitter.com/HexstreamSoft/status/1331080126860234752
4:11:45
phoe
I guess that I annoyed him a wee bit too much with my posts at https://github.com/cl-library-docs/common-lisp-libraries/issues/3
4:11:54
phoe
I guess it was the last one, especially
4:13:14
beach
phoe: I am sorry you got into an argument with that guy.
4:14:07
phoe
beach: no worries. I am glad that I was able to spend some time and compile some publicly available data on him that will hopefully help keep the Lisp community a better place in the future.
4:14:44
beach
It's good you see it that way.
4:15:01
phoe
and the best news is that neither Xach nor lispm hold the position of the #1 Lisp baddie anymore!
4:37:15
mfiano
I still hold the record for longest grudge held against. Only recently as yesterday have I seen him mention me. Serious psychological issues over there.
5:08:06
dbotton
oh my dear... that was intense...
5:08:26
phoe
dbotton: you just read through all of it!?
5:09:29
dbotton
most of it.. he repeats himself alot
5:09:44
janis
barely ever been on irc
5:10:00
phoe
janis: well then welcome to #lisp, a place where Common Lisp programmers hang out
5:10:14
janis
i think im gonna try this more often bc i found out emacs has a built in irc client LOL
5:10:36
janis
so you can expect to see me somewhat frequently soon
5:10:40
phoe
you might want to visit #lispcafe if you feel like having some general random/offtopic chat with lispers
5:10:48
phoe
or #clschool if you want to learn Common Lisp
5:12:21
Bike
i'm amazed you have the patience for this github argument
5:12:24
phoe
also just feel free to hang around and tune in to general #lisp discussion about Common Lisp the language
5:12:54
phoe
Bike: I actually decided to have it
5:13:11
phoe
I think I'm the first person who actually managed to out-speak him
5:14:57
Bike
i envy their internet experience if the craziest thing anyone has ever said to them on the internet was that they're not good at lisp
5:15:38
Bike
well, i shouldn't gossip too much i guess, sorry
5:15:45
phoe
in my case it's just a combination of patience, persistence, data scraping and a decision to allocate some time to solve this issue with his aggression once and for all.
5:15:57
phoe
but, yes, right - I've cooled down a bit, too
5:16:05
phoe
back to standard #lisp content
5:16:31
Bike
so the reason this arrows thing would need a code walker is just to distinguish whether a form has <> in it, right?
5:16:47
phoe
this is the only reason
5:17:29
phoe
because otherwise it cannot easily tell apart (list (list (list '<>))) from (list (list (list <>)))
5:19:20
Bike
and the reason that matters is because if there's no <> then it's implicitly the first argument to the next form, right... odd stuff
8:26:11
jackdaniel
ACTION puts down the bowl with popcorn and closes the issue #3 on github. all you said phoe is something I agree with :)
8:30:26
phoe
jackdaniel: was the popcorn tasty
8:31:27
jackdaniel
actually it was a donut (and it was tasty), but popcorn seems to be a "figure of speech"
8:48:37
phantomics
I could use a jackdaniel after reading that comment thread
8:49:16
phoe
you mean you need a lisp programmer skilled in ECL, CLIM, and C?
8:49:36
jackdaniel
I'm sure I have some proficiency in Common Lisp too ,-)
8:50:08
phoe
jackdaniel: that's the part I meant by "lisp programmer"
8:50:13
phantomics
phoe I dunno how common Jack Daniel's is in Europe
8:50:16
phoe
imode: ask about the comment thread?
8:50:25
phoe
phantomics: yes, jackdaniel is in Europe
8:50:35
jackdaniel
phoe: you may get it in a store without an issue
8:50:53
jackdaniel
however hypocratic that sounds, I prefer scotch ^_^ sorry for the offtopic
8:51:00
phoe
imode: https://github.com/cl-library-docs/common-lisp-libraries/issues/3 - wear a hazmat suit before entering.
8:51:42
phantomics
Have a bottle of something hard ready for afterward
8:52:43
ldb
in general i don't like arrow, bcs i'd choose another language for doing functional style programming
8:53:01
phoe
holy cow I wish this issue was about discussing arrows
8:53:23
imode
this guy has mental illness.
8:53:32
phantomics
It's something I'd use in limited circumstances
8:53:50
fiddlerwoaroof
I thought that too
8:54:00
phantomics
"dangerously intellectually honest and ethical"
8:54:01
fiddlerwoaroof
They grow on you (when writing Clojure, at least)
8:54:03
imode
"It's just a meme. Chill out." oh my god.
8:54:34
imode
judging from this dude's twitter bio he is a fuck. treat him as one.
8:55:13
ldb
won't judge a book by its cover
8:55:49
phoe
ldb: well, this github issue has some pages.
8:56:12
phantomics
There's plenty of writing available from him
8:58:00
ldb
phoe: oh, i see you made a long post
8:58:11
phoe
don't worry, keep scrolling
8:58:36
ldb
\me reading from backwards
9:04:10
ldb
now I see "It's just a meme. Chill out." part
9:06:08
jackdaniel
OK, frauds and drama aside, lisp lisp lisp (pun at the phrase "team team team" from the it crowd franchise)
9:07:33
phoe
yeah, let's talk about arrow macros
9:07:58
phoe
i wrote a tutorial about those recently, has anyone perhaps read it
9:09:10
ck_
It's good. Thank you phoe.
9:10:25
phantomics
Where's the tutorial?
9:11:44
phoe
https://github.com/phoe/binding-arrows/blob/main/doc/TUTORIAL.md
9:12:57
ldb
I think I'd headache if I recived a peice of code from 30 years ago with "idioms" been used everywhere and has to reverse engineering what's going on there
9:14:00
ck_
isn't that what DSLs are?
9:14:31
phoe
they kinda are; that's why LOOP tends to get some hate now and then
9:15:55
phoe
jackdaniel: what does this form evaluate to?
9:16:14
jackdaniel
beats me, I've never worked with arrows
9:16:28
phoe
weird, on my implementation I get :SALMON
9:16:30
jackdaniel
but it looks nice, symbolic fish is converted to a symbol
9:16:39
phoe
i wonder if that's clojure-compatible
9:17:16
no-defun-allowed
(>~<o> oOo) ; the fish-tank arrow
9:18:03
phantomics
Does the (baz) need to be in parentheses?
9:18:10
no-defun-allowed
...is something you should put on a paste, yes.
9:18:33
no-defun-allowed
To my knowledge, no. But you should know it's doable.
9:18:35
imode
arrow macros are neat. though I'm biased because I like concatenative langs.
9:19:15
phantomics
It's just 4 lines, I understand quux needs parens because it has arguments after the first implicit one
9:19:17
phoe
phantomics: no. symbols are implicitly converted to lists.
9:19:29
phoe
phantomics: (-> foo bar baz) === (-> foo (bar) (baz))
9:19:31
phantomics
That's what I thought
9:20:04
phoe
this is to be able to provide function names to the arrow macro, which is kinda convenient
9:20:10
phoe
Clojurists often use this
9:22:11
ck_
Here is some helpful code that subsumes many uses https://github.com/randomcorp/thread-first-thread-last-backwards-question-mark-as-arrow-cond-arrow-bang
9:22:58
ck_
(if you have some time, watch the linked talk, it is good fun)
9:23:04
no-defun-allowed
Try to cd to that directory without tab completion.
9:23:07
fiddlerwoaroof
I found that, in Clojure, you generally want to stick to just -> and ->>
9:23:20
fiddlerwoaroof
The fancy ones turn into a mess quickly
9:23:45
phantomics
no-defun-allowed use asterisks old-school style
12:12:26
ldb
I got the LCF ML from Nuprl3 running correctly independently. Now I can start develop my own ML dialect on this.
12:14:27
no-defun-allowed
The first ML implementation was written in Lisp; I don't know if it is that one though.
12:14:30
ldb
it runs inside Common Lisp and can call lisp functions transparently.
12:14:52
ldb
no-defun-allowed: it has code from that one
12:16:07
ldb
but also has some code from Caml compiler
12:22:40
lotuseater
the first ML seems from 1973
Tuesday, 24th of November 2020, 13:02:45 UTC