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4:16:03
contrapunctus
beach: been designing a markup language - https://github.com/contrapunctus-1/TheatreScript ...thinking of making a fork of 3bmd to parse it. (Or maybe it can be extended instead of forking...)
6:02:18
nirved
phoe: missing mezzano here https://github.com/phoe/trivial-custom-debugger/blob/master/trivial-custom-debugger.lisp#L41
7:00:17
VincentVega
Hey guys! Got a question on types. Is there any danger in class slots initform being nil when I specify some non-compatible type e.g. double-float? Structs fail to compile w/ smth like that, but the class def is just fine.
7:01:44
beach
VincentVega: You should probably use the type (or null double-float) for cases like that.
7:08:01
VincentVega
flip214: well, the struct definition compiles, but making an instance produces an error
7:09:19
beach
It must be the case that the type is checked in a struct but not in a standard object.
7:10:25
flip214
VincentVega: yeah, you need to provide all missing values on your make-<struct> call
7:10:39
VincentVega
because the struct has to calculate it's own size, right? btw are there any good resources/articles on typing?
11:56:15
scymtym
ebrasca: i know. if you record a video about your work, i'm sure phoe would schedule it for a future installment of the online meetup
11:57:16
beach
It seems McCLIM is largely unknown to people. Maybe one talk should be about the listener, "debugger", and the integration of Clouseau.
11:59:00
scymtym
ebrasca: maybe i misunderstood what you were getting at. i just wanted to say that if you want to present your work, it shouldn't be a problem
11:59:50
_death
scymtym: here's a backtrace for the lock issue https://plaster.tymoon.eu/view/1980#1980
12:05:48
scymtym
_death: can you get a backtrace form McCLIM port thread when the image is in this state?
12:12:06
jackdaniel
n.b, it would be fantastic if the videos were available outside yt/twitch gardens, i.e as torrents
12:14:05
scymtym
_death: maybe the problem is also related to the inspected value. it seems to be printing the long list when trying to display documentation for the "swap place values" command. a very long list or putting that list in a vector alone doesn't trigger anything for me. is the value you were inspecting easy to reproduce?
12:19:08
scymtym
_death: anything "around" that in terms of composite objects containing the list or similar? i can't get the list alone to cause any problems
12:23:06
scymtym
i suspect two issues: 1) clouseau does not abbreviate the object representation when printing the command help 2) clx can get stuck when writing overlong requests (or something more specific to string-related requests)
12:23:23
jackdaniel
this warning is a known problem with a proposed solution blocked by drei design. uf, that was a long sentence
12:25:30
scymtym
_death: if you surround the (format stream "Drag ~A onto another slot to ...") call in Apps/Clouseau/src/commands.lisp with (let ((*print-length* 30) (*print-circle* t)), does the issue persist?
12:27:42
scymtym
(the proper fix will involve Clouseau's WITH-PRINT-ERROR-HANDLING and WITH-SAFE-AND-TERSE-PRINTING)
12:31:15
scymtym
yeah, there are multiple help messages one of which is chosen depending on the destination object and pressed modifiers. they probably all lack the necessary printer setup
12:34:34
scymtym
thank you for experimenting. i have now reproduced the issue with default *PRINT-LENGTH* etc.
13:24:30
_death
it is possible to attempt to swap the value of a pseudo-place, which signals a no-applicable-method-error
13:26:43
scymtym
that must be a missing (supports PLACE (eql :setf)) method or a failure to use the READ-ONLY-PLACE mixin
13:29:32
scymtym
of course, i meant the architecture has the necessary features and the problem is thus a "configuration error"
13:38:55
_death
it already uses read-only-place.. I think the drag-swap-place-values tester needs a little tweaking.. like a (and (safe-valuep object) (supportsp object 'setf)) in case from-object is nil
13:41:47
scymtym
right, i might have forgotten to finish this or rather adapt it to McCLIM changes regarding the names of the tester arguments
14:06:47
_death
the graph example was also very cool, though the layout algo could be improved for larger graphs https://i.imgur.com/14uWrs0.png
14:08:09
jackdaniel
a few people mentioned on the issue tracker ,that they are working on alternative layouts, but nothing came in as a pull request so far
14:19:51
jackdaniel
_death: if you are interested in extending graph functionality, then the file to look at is Core/clim-core/graph-formatting.lisp
14:20:22
jackdaniel
the interface is not documented (and not exported :), but it is possible to add new types of graph
14:21:44
jackdaniel
(define-graph-type :pretty-dawg pretty-dag-graph-output-record), and then add a few methods
14:54:07
garbochock
Good afternoon, lisp newbie here. I have a question about looking up documentation. I'm aware of (describe 'function). However, currently as I'm going through 'practical common lisp', I came across (eql value :unspecific) - and wanted to figure out what (the keyword?) ":unspecific" means. On (describe 'eql) I get no information. This type of situation have come up before, and I would be interested to know how one would go about getti
14:56:14
beach
So, apparently, it is possible that the variable VALUE can take on that symbol as a value.
14:58:08
garbochock
Ah thank you, I was looking for some magical meaning behind it. Just a symbol, thanks!
15:01:37
garbochock
Indeed, looked up context and it appears pathname-name and pathname-type can return :unspecific.
15:04:06
aeth
garbochock: The only way to "document" keywords afaik would be to define a member or eql type, e.g. (deftype possibly-specific () "Docstring here." `(member :unspecific :specific)) or (deftype unspecific () "Docstring here." `(eql :unspecific)) where obviously the member type is more useful.
15:04:31
aeth
Of course, this is one direction, from type to keyword(s)/symbol(s), and not the other way, so you still couldn't find it from describe.
15:05:46
aeth
It's definitely possible that a keyword (especially a common one) could be part of more than one member type.
15:12:06
aeth
(I doubt either would be useful in that specific example, since I'm guessing it's either a non-keyword or :unspecific)
15:23:26
phoe
every symbol inside that package is automatically exported and it becomes a constant that evaluates to itself
15:24:19
phoe
so you can use them kinda-sorta-like enums in other languages, except you do not need to declare them beforehand
15:24:56
phoe
they inherit the trait of symbols where they have identity, and so :FOO is EQ/EQL only to :FOO and nothing else, which is why that bit of PCL code used an EQL comparison with a keyword
15:46:05
beach
Josh_2: Oh, and scymtym had a great presentation for the online Lisp meeting today, in case you missed it.
15:52:22
sm2n
beach, I was wondering if the lispos paper on your website being replaced with an older version was on purpose?
15:56:14
Josh_2
beach: I see the presentations you made for CL, very impressed by your choice of beamer theme :P
15:59:04
sm2n
in particular, I think graphics would have to be integrated all the way down, because otherwise you can't maintain security
16:02:48
sm2n
current architectures all run the userland part of the graphics stack in a single process generally, so you end up with at least two different levels of privileges - in the graphics stack, and as mediated by the os kernel with user permissions or whatever