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20:53:39
juliusdeane
Are there any nixos users here who know how to get SBCL to find C libraries (eg libffi and libSDL)?
21:23:17
smokeink
(sb-thread:make-thread (lambda () (swank/backend:call-with-debugger-hook *debugger-hook* #'anyfunction))) ; thank you luis.
21:23:17
smokeink
note that this gives a half as short backtrace than when we directly call #'anyfunction.
21:23:19
smokeink
(bt:make-thread (lambda () (handler-bind ((sb-ext:step-condition #'sb-impl::invoke-stepper)) (anyfunction))))
21:23:21
smokeink
also thank you jackdaniel for sharing your insight. Funny that for this simple question one of the answers I got in #sbcl was "just pretend that the debugger in sbcl doesn't exist."
21:23:24
smokeink
One small issue with this console only version though: after each step sbcl calls (sb-thread:release-foreground) https://github.com/sbcl/sbcl/blob/master/src/code/debug.lisp#L983 (as the manual says: "If a background thread enters the debugger, selecting any restart will put it back into the background before it resumes.") why is that??!?? now because of this, when debugging, after every step we have to call (bt:thread-yield))
21:32:14
smokeink
5 years ago: https://bugs.launchpad.net/sbcl/+bug/1514211 "Essential part of problem is that stepper indeed does not work in threads without handler-bind installed. I'm sure this should be described in the manual, but there is no single word about it. I suggested a fix for the problem, but it took half a day for me to figure out what was the problem.Please do not ignore this report."
22:25:36
earl-ducaine
I'm trying to get get the :qt system to load under latest quicklisp. (asdf:system-source-directory 'qt)
22:25:37
earl-ducaine
I'm running into some issues which after some investigation seem to be caused by GCC not being able to include <smoke/qtcore_smoke.h>
22:35:54
earl-ducaine
phoe: ql'ing :qt-libs worked! but :qt still fails. Was :qt-libs supposed to make :qt work. or were you suggesting I use that system instead of :qt.?
22:45:58
phoe
AFAIK the former requires all the qt4 libs and headers available on your computer so it can compile some C++ stuff locally
22:58:08
earl-ducaine
phoe: ah. Thanks for the additional info. Unfortunately, :qt is a dependancy in another system that I'm trying to use.
0:55:13
asarch
If I have: (defparameter *values* '('(lisp rocks) '(clos rocks even better) '(mcclim is also awesome))) and then I do: (loop for lists in *values* do (loop for element in lists do (format t "Parsing element: ~a~%" element))), how could I get each element?
0:58:08
aeth
You can think of ' as like multiplication. 2*(4+3)=2*4+2*3. '((foo) (bar)) = (list '(foo) '(bar))
1:02:52
White_Flame
asarch: if you (setf *print-pretty* nil), then you'll see the full lists with QUOTE symbols in them when you show *VALUES* at the repl, and you can see how they're in the way
1:04:06
pjb
'('(lisp rocks)) = '((cl:quote (lisp rocks))) and ask yourself why 1- you put (lisp rocks) in a sublist, 2- you put the symbol CL:QUOTE as first element of that sublist.
1:05:02
smokeink
(ql:quickload :com.informatimago) ; System "com.informatimago" not found. Not on quicklisp any more?
1:05:14
aeth
To use the distributive property analogy: '('(foo)) is (list ''(foo)) which of course is just (list (quote (quote (list foo))))
1:05:47
aeth
If you have to work with quote in quote, be aware of that extra quote, but it's rarely what you want
1:06:42
pjb
smokeink: indeed. cd ~/quicklisp/local-projects ; git clone https://github.com/informatimago/lisp informatimago
1:09:15
Xach
smokeink: the author posted many vile racist and neo-nazi things on twitter and i do not wish to work with them in quicklisp or anything else.
1:10:54
pjb
Note how he benefits from free-speech protection by his constitution, but he acts in a completely totalitarian way against others…
1:11:48
smokeink
yeah but if it was nazi stuff and he doesn't want to associate in any way, it's his freedom too
1:18:27
no-defun-allowed
There is also a...was it draw-cons-tree system on Quicklisp which achieves roughly the same thing.
1:20:34
smokeink
pjb: I have neo-nazi friends, I respect their vision , which in part is insightful, but as far as I'm concerned, it's only in part
1:24:23
holycow
Xach: if you are monitoring peoples personal postings online you are no longer worty of support
1:26:19
Xach
holycow: I don't generally seek out things like that, but if I am aware of them and do nothing, I find it intolerable.
1:28:33
holycow
i will make a donation for the work you have done thus far, i find it helpful, but i will no longer be using ql on principle
1:29:11
holycow
* i have not donated to you and should out of principle for the work you have done thus far
1:29:40
no-defun-allowed
holycow: The paradox of tolerance is an odd one; but not really a topic for #lisp. #lispcafe is usually at its greatest throughput when arguing such philosophical things.
1:29:50
holycow
* i admit that my position is hypocritical because my line in the sand is somewhere along the lines of sexual abuse and i would make a similar call then
1:35:21
LdBeth
Does the terminal emulator in CLiki’s suggested projects require to be a VT100 compatible one?
1:36:18
karlosz
i think with suggested projects you should take them in whatever direction you see fit
1:36:40
pjb
LdBeth: you can define your own control codes, but write down a termcap/terminfo entry for your terminal!
5:05:28
beach
HiRE: If you take a job in the right place, or work for the right customer, your employer or customer might not care whether you use Common Lisp or something else.
5:06:13
HiRE
beach: thats true. Similar to the one artcle...cant remember its name where a guy sells common lisp to JPL
5:08:47
beach
Also, consider getting a job at a place that does NOT use Common Lisp, but that has no good reason not to use it. Then you can show them that you can do better with Common Lisp than with what they are currently using.
5:09:22
beach
That's even better than to work for a company that is already convinced about the virtues of Common Lisp.
5:10:34
copec
I do systems admin and devops and my job is 100% remote, I've managed to slip in quite a bit of CL scripting
5:10:42
beach
The only thing I have found to work is to show that you can create a lot of high-quality stuff in a short period of time.
5:14:33
copec
You seem totally qualified for a lot of arbitrary listings I have seen, here in the states
5:16:31
beach
A degree, while not strictly necessary to get the job done, is a kind of international unemployment insurance.
5:17:08
no-defun-allowed
On the contrary, I am trying to find a part-time job so I can pay for university, but I could still wait since it'll just come out of my taxes after university.
5:19:12
HiRE
I'm currently in a PhD program. I just couldn't get enough of paying absurd university prices ;D
5:20:25
HiRE
doing it part time and working full time definitely makes it tolerable despite it taking ages to finish
5:31:22
no-defun-allowed
Anyways, this is probably the reverse of what is usually asked here, but has anyone attempted to implement something like the JVM in Common Lisp?
5:38:09
beach
I strongly recommend you move to a country where the university enrollment fees are low.
5:38:53
Xach
no-defun-allowed: not just "something like" but the real thing, able to load and run java code.
5:58:18
no-defun-allowed
It's bitrotted to the point I can't compile it sadly, but most of the code is there.