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13:10:16
Xach
Yes, sorry, just missed the window. But I hope not to wait until the end of december for the december update.
13:10:42
Xach
This month's problems were caused by two libraries not working well together, compounded by my build hardware crashing sporadically
13:14:36
Lycurgus
so that, in your place, if debian is to be the reference, i'd wait a year from realease
13:20:02
jackdaniel
I imagine that testing just on one platform vs one implementation vs all libraries is demanding task
13:22:44
jackdaniel
Lycurgus: could you set such CI for current ql distributions? I think it would be useful for package and implementation maintainers regardless (I could use some reports for ecl i.e)
13:24:27
jackdaniel
Lycurgus: that was directed to you, because you seem to have some expeirence with CI and you are interested in that (justifully so!)
13:25:24
Lycurgus
misperception, I personally am not interested in CI, it doesn't fit in my resource profile for the things I want to do
13:26:37
Lycurgus
i am suggesting that it would be good and doable, not necessarily that anyone do it
13:26:43
MichaelRaskin
I think the only claim was that keeping a CI up is not harder than the work currently done
13:28:03
Lycurgus
in practice I know that there is a rats nest of incompatiblities, strengths and weaknesses in the major implementations, and I color within those lines
13:28:13
Xach
I guess that keeping a CI up would not be (much) harder, but setting it up initially seems like a big task.
13:32:52
Lycurgus
if the resources weren't a problem it might save effort in the end if you used it just as a filter, empirical backing for the not just sbcl criterion
13:58:34
MichaelRaskin
(decided to use my already-there code to check iolib compilation on ECL; ouch it does take time)
14:24:50
MichaelRaskin
But yeah, I kind of have most of the code needed to compute portability matrix for Linux+(SBCL/CCL/ECL/ABCL/CLISP), but I am not patient enough to wait until it builds
14:26:40
jackdaniel
it even makes it easy to construct pivot tables for different versions of the implementation/software
14:28:22
jackdaniel
seems that they are decently up to date; i.e https://common-lisp.net/project/cl-test-grid/library/adw-charting.html
15:15:39
phoe
a perfect situation would be having access to proper hardware where we can spin up virtualized mac/win/lin boxes on demand, and run our CI on those
16:18:31
Demosthenex
ok, so i've in the past used R for simple graphing and stats. i recall seeing (but cant find) a post on reddit that said CL could do all the same stuff with some library. does anyone have a recommendation?
17:07:40
edgar-rft
Demosthenex: if I know this right then XLISP-STAT was one of the predecessors of R and there had been several attempts to port XLISP-STAT to Common Lisp, for example https://github.com/blindglobe/common-lisp-stat
17:08:50
edgar-rft
if that's not what you're looking for see here for alternatives https://www.cliki.net/site/search?query=statistics
17:28:51
Josh_2
How do I convert a string like this https://plaster.tymoon.eu/view/1580#1580 to a list?
17:34:34
pfdietz
Also, use jsown. It's much faster than cl-json, even if you have to intern some of the names yourself.
17:34:37
phoe
and if you want to be super paranoid, set *PRINT-READABLY* to T in case you get an unreadable object
18:11:11
Demosthenex
edgar-rft: yeah, in R i use more the plotting library ... i don't do deep statistics.
22:03:30
no-defun-allowed
If you are going to use jsown, I would strongly suggest you go into the sources and change every (declaim (optimize ... (safety 0) ...)) to (safety 1) at least, because you will get some very strange conditions if you make a mistake otherwise.
22:08:57
phoe
does the standard actually guarantee that top-level DECLAIM OPTIMIZE settings do not leak out of the currently compiled file?
22:10:00
no-defun-allowed
"As with other defining macros, it is unspecified whether or not the compile-time side-effects of a declaim persist after the file has been compiled."
22:10:44
no-defun-allowed
I'm not good at reading CLHS-ese, but I think this means there's no guarantee.
22:14:28
no-defun-allowed
Can't say, but it's still incredibly impolite to use (SAFETY 0). I had to spend a good half hour debugging with a friend because we got memory faults by giving it the structure (:obj ((a . b) ...)) instead of (:obj (a . b) ...)
22:26:29
no-defun-allowed
(EVAL-WHEN is one of the parts of CL I don't get, so I think you should wait for someone more knowledgeable to answer.)
23:06:12
aeth
no-defun-allowed: yet another piece of evidence that every JSON library for CL that I've heard of is awful
23:07:16
aeth
For whatever reason, every JSON library looks to me like an irredeemable failure that fails to understand either CL or JSON. I've ranted about that before here, though.
23:31:35
no-defun-allowed
aeth: I have a *very* large JSON file I want to analyse, so I will probably have to make my own with some kind of "stream"ing.
23:32:28
no-defun-allowed
And I remember jsown didn't understand some part of the \u syntax until recently, FWIW
23:44:21
jfrancis
I got almost three years into a work project using cl-json before hitting a missing feature that forced me to jsown. That was six months ago, and I still haven't gotten around to re-writing all the cl-json stuff with jsown. I just have one single file that uses jsown instead of cl-json. Every time I look at that project and compare it with all the features I have yet to complete, it moves further and further down the list of priorities.
23:45:00
jfrancis
Which is why good software projects have project managers, to force stuff like that up to the top.
23:47:44
White_Flame
of course, that's also why having application-specific functions which wrap your libraries are also good
0:14:15
Josh_2
I keep getting the error bad-file-descriptor when calling socket-accept on my listen socket, the fd is -1 for some reason
0:17:59
aeth
jfrancis: Well, I think you brought up a good point with project managers, but most people do CL on their own time, in which case the problem is motivation, so the order to do things in imo kind of reverses. Instead of building a solid foundation of libraries and then the application, you need to get a MVP of the application/library done as quickly as possible to maintain motivation. At least, imo/ime.
0:18:22
aeth
So it doesn't surprise me that people work with an 80% good-enough JSON library instead of writing a perfect fit one, even though 80% good-enough isn't actually good enough.