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22:44:21
Harag
:jackdaniel ... got ecl and my project working together...I deleted .cache...rebooted and started ecl without --heap-size
22:47:17
Harag
:jackdaniel ...I have no idea what the real issue was ... maybe it was just a tired user...thanx for trying to help
22:51:56
Harag
:jackdaniel ... specifying --heap-size still causes the crashes... should it be specified in bytes, kb, mg or gb?
22:58:51
Harag
how should i handle version numbers for quicklisp submission? Should I bump it each time there are any changes (bugs or enhancements) to my project or just when major milestones are met?
23:04:12
aeth
I don't think versions are even required for Quicklisp. There doesn't seem to be a widespread standard like semver in the node.js community.
23:05:48
no-defun-allowed
pretty sure ASDF likes some kind of semver-like numbering scheme for defsystem :version
23:31:49
aeth
no-defun-allowed: semver is just the only reasonable, standard thing you can put in a version string other than the old-Linux-style version number scheme that even the Linux kernel doesn't follow anymore because it means you could be stuck on 2.x forever
23:32:42
aeth
I suppose you could also do something like semver but have a "supermajor" in front for seriously big releases or something. I'd actually prefer this, mainly to avoid seeing "27.x.y"
23:33:28
aeth
but that'll probably never be widespread so I've given up on clever versions and so yyyy.mm.dd.patch is probably the way to go
23:34:21
Harag
ok well I am at 0.0.2 and it wont move from there for some time took 2 years to go from 0.0.1 to 0.0.2 ;)
23:38:12
aeth
Harag: exactly why just dotifying the ISO 8601 date format and then having an optional patch at the end is probably the way to go, especially if you don't even release multiple times a day
23:40:56
Harag
so 2019.08.19 good enough? ... I am going to forget to update the bloody thing... lol
23:41:59
aeth
some software's still in use from the last century, and some will probably still be in use in the next one
23:46:59
Harag
so the project has many sub projects...each one extending functionality with their own .asd's should all of those just stay in synq version wise or should they reflect only changes them them?
23:48:58
aeth
this is the beauty of time-based version numbers. If A has a release 2019.07.14 and B has a release 2019.07.22 and then A has a release 2019.07.27 and B depends on A then you know for sure (assuming things were tested correctly) that B should work with the 2019.07.14 release even if there's a regression in 2019.07.27 that breaks it.
23:50:13
aeth
i.e. any package should work on the largest version number of a dependency package that is less than its own version number, assuming that both packages use the same system
23:51:30
aeth
(less than its own version number, or equal to its version number except in the patch version, which could be higher, if they're both released on the same day)
23:53:32
aeth
Now, this might not always happen because you could be developing based on the updated-once-monthly Quicklisp version of the library, but if that doesn't happen, that's what the patch version is for, which doesn't have to be a same-day fix of that release.
23:55:48
Harag
the project is used by other "live" projects already so, development is as and when needed. The only reason then project code changed a lot in the last week was of refactoring and finally completed functionality... as well as making it play nice with other lisps etc for quicklisp's sake
23:57:10
Harag
there is one section that still needs some tlc code wise and one more feature then this project should come to rest mode
23:59:40
aeth
Oh, in anticipation of objections hours later (because this is IRC), yes, time-based versions don't have to work as well as I just described... but in a world where the libraries are fairly stable, like with CL, it probably would look like that.
0:00:27
Harag
well thats that... version numbers updated quicklisp issue created... now I can get some sleep
3:50:57
aeth
What should I call my library to turn a variant of markdown into html for my static site generation? I fully expect it to bloat over time to cover other A->B transformations so I don't want to give it a specific name.
3:52:59
aeth
White_Flame: the thing is, I might want ot have another source (even just another md flavor) or another destination (even just xhtml or xml)
3:55:43
aeth
and before you know it it's converting restructuredtext to org-mode because of how things just develop over time
4:14:38
jgodbout
call it md2html, either a) it'll limit the bloat as a mental note or b) YOLO and at least youll have the memories
5:23:55
edgar-rft
aeth: if you want to avoid a specific name, just call it unspecific. That would perfectly resemble the state of most markup languages.
5:26:27
lisbeths
If there is no flaw in the common lisp hyperspec then why does the military often choose ada instead?
5:33:53
pjb
lisbeths: there's a flaw in clhs: it specifies prog2 to return the result of the first expression.
5:34:25
beach
lisbeths: Second, where do you get the idea that the military would avoid choosing something just because its specification has flaws in it?
5:42:27
beach
lisbeths: yes, but there is no reason to believe that the Ada specification is less flawed than the Common Lisp HyperSpec, nor, as I pointed out, that the military avoided Common Lisp just because the Common Lisp HyperSpec has flaws. You just don't have any basis for that.
5:42:40
pjb
lisbeths: furthermore, there's no formal specification of CL. This would have to be redhibitory for the DOD, if I was the DOD… https://dl.acm.org/citation.cfm?id=800054.802002
5:43:12
lisbeths
Why would the DoD choose ada if they could prove that neither was more flawed than the other?
5:44:02
beach
lisbeths: Notice that we are talking about the Common Lisp HyperSpec, i.e. the document. Not the language as it was intended, despite the flaws in the specification.
5:44:40
lisbeths
Why would the DoD exclude languages written to the specification of common lisp and choose ada instead?
5:45:15
beach
lisbeths: Furthermore, you started by assuming that the Common Lisp HyperSpec has no flaws, but we already told you that it does, so what is your point?
5:45:21
pjb
lisbeths: because an implementation written to the specification would do: (prog2 1 2 3) -> 1
5:46:41
beach
lisbeths: It appears that you have no insight into the process used by the military for choosing, or not choosing, specific languages. There is no reason to believe it has to do only with flaws in the specification. If you think otherwise, please provide some evidence for that.
5:47:52
Jachy
lisbeths: here's the answer http://home.pipeline.com/~hbaker1/sigplannotices/gigo-1997-04.html
5:48:10
pjb
lisbeths: why don't you just ask them directly? Public Communications - DOD Public Affairs / 1400 Defense Pentagon / Washington, DC 20301-1400
5:53:28
no-defun-allowed
lisbeth: I wouldn't expect any sense of sanity or reasoning from military officials, honestly.
5:55:05
no-defun-allowed
As in, a mathematical model for the language. I started reading the one for Standard ML on the weekend, then gave up since I'm not good with mathematical notation.
5:57:42
semz
Seems excessive to make that a requirement, even though it's useful. Then again I'm not running the shop
6:03:16
lisbeths
It basically said. "Communist bad. Trick communists into using software we know is bad and we'll use it too but we'll use the bad software better."
6:03:50
lisbeths
If someone believed that document 100% they would come to the conclusion that the military preferred certain other languages to the ones they chose.
6:06:26
no-defun-allowed
sounds like an April Fools' document to me, but I would also expect that kind of stupidity to come out of a red scared US government
6:08:17
lisbeths
Another hard to believe thing is that the americans could actually decieve the russians into using worse software.
6:15:52
alandipert
p_l nevermind about let not interning binding syms - they're definitely interned. my arg to find-symbol just wasn't uppercase
6:16:07
lisbeths
I argue this channel has no topic and if you say that there is try to talk about that topic for a prolonged period of time to test that is indeed the topic. I ague you will find that any topic that is listed will not be satisfactory.
6:18:23
beach
SaganMan: Steady but slow progress. I am working on translating high-level intermediate representation (HIR) to medium-level intermediate representation (MIR) for SICL.
6:18:58
beach
Luckily, there are now many people helping out with SICL and other essential projects.
6:19:59
beach
Heisig is working directly on SICL. And Bike continues the work on Cleavir. Many people, including jackdaniel, loke, scymtym and others are doing fantastic work on McCLIM
6:20:55
beach
Heisig is also working on Trucler, a modern version of the CLtL2 environment protocol.
6:21:30
beach
And scymtym is working on several things, including a better inspector (Clouseau), the Eclector reader, and many libraries that will turn out to be highly useful in the long run.
6:46:53
SaganMan
beach: I don't get enough time to do programming. I code lisp some time ago, did project euler problems. Upto 50 problems.
6:50:29
beach
If I am counting right, it has resulted in 13 ILC or ELS articles since 2014. So it is not just code, but also new techniques and such.
8:14:17
beach
GAH! Four hours spent on proofreading the next chapter of Dyomkin's book. But I think it is a very important document, so I consider it part of my job description to do it.
8:36:20
ck_
That's a good thing too. Too many errata are too long because .. well I can only speculate. Editors place too much faith in the authors? Publishers in the editors? and so on
9:42:23
beach
flip214: That's OK, I'll do it. But another pair of eyes might be appreciated. There are already a few chapters on planet.lisp.org and I think they are still possible to update.
9:43:35
flip214
beach: ack, will try to. so, basically http://lisp-univ-etc.blogspot.com/search/label/lisp, right?