freenode/#lisp - IRC Chatlog
Search
9:53:24
beach
I added "A calendar program" to this list: metamodular.com/Common-Lisp/suggested-projects.html
9:56:17
beach
A simple first version would be adequate, and more features could be added later, like sophisticated ways of handling overlapping events.
9:57:33
beach
It would be a perfect application to work on for someone who would like to use it as an opportunity to learn CLIM/McCLIM.
10:37:09
jonatack
no-defun-allowed: drive-by thought, could also do M-x sl-i-li (slime-restart-inferior-lisp)
11:00:35
no-defun-allowed
jonatack: Not really, that would lose my state, which I recovered only because I could recreate it since it's mostly transforming an online API.
11:02:29
no-defun-allowed
Yeah, killing the REPL then M-x slime-repl looks like that would cut down lossage.
12:05:30
Harag
:beach ...just curious is some one actually working on a lisp operating system or is it just an exercise on paper?
12:33:42
beach
Harag: I am. SICL is going to be a safe implementation that will be the basis of a multi-user operating system.
12:34:22
beach
Harag: My first-class global environments were designed so that several "users" can co-exist in the same system.
12:35:46
beach
Harag: It is thought that getting a bootable image is the hard part of an OS, but I don't agree. The hard part is making it safe and stable.
12:36:26
beach
In fact, the bootable part is not even terribly interesting. A lot of work could be done by running the entire thing as a Unix application.
12:37:58
beach
The hard (and interesting) parts are getting a satisfactory user environment and a satisfactory application API.
12:55:14
LdBeth
To be concise, it was aimed for language implementors so a language learner could get confused
12:58:17
beach
I also need an editable version of it for WSCL. I started trying to turn the dpANS document into a single LaTeX document (not a single file, a single document), but it is just too hard.
12:59:48
Lycurgus
LdBeth, yeah nobody can prevent that sort of thing, it's not copyright infringment to promote an asshole
13:00:13
beach
moldybits: "draft proposal for American National Standard" I believe. It's the draft of the standard, but I understand it is virtually identical to the final standard.
13:02:12
beach
Plus, it is one plain TeX document per chapter, with lots of custom macros that have been superseded by LaTeX.
13:03:05
dlowe
I made a TeX parser/macro expander, with the idea that I could manually specify macros that didn't expand.
13:04:28
dlowe
The hope is to produce something that is >90% converted and then do the rest by hand to produce the final document.
13:38:34
galdor
is there a way to get the output of the compiler when the cffi groveller fails ? I end up with a UIOP/RUN-PROGRAM:SUBPROCESS-ERROR which only contains a code, command line and process which is a UIOP/LAUNCH-PROGRAM::PROCESS-INFO with OUTPUT-STREAM set to NIL
14:23:19
galdor
it seems to end up in *inferior-lisp* indeed; still better than nothing, but I really need to write a patch so that the output end up in the condition
14:24:16
galdor
"You may not distribute the code without prior consent from me." -> well at least it is clear :)
19:17:03
Harag
:beach ...thanx for side tracking me there for a couple of hours some interesting reading, there is a lot of projects out there but they all look seriously short of manpower :(
19:31:01
Harag
:beach ...just thinking out loud ...why not start with just a server version server version of a lispos? Something that can be put in a docker container...
19:44:04
Harag
:dlowe ...well yes minus the linux os that would normally used... would it be much smaller? maybe throw in a library for the docker containers to work well/easy together...I am no expert just wondering
19:46:05
White_Flame
as beach said, there's no real benefit at the user level or application developer level between running bare metal and running as a process on top of an existing OS
19:50:46
Harag
:White_Flame not sure what you mean...are you saying that there would be no benefits in application design, roll out or performance to a lispos?
19:50:47
dlowe
imagine being able to just pass a complex object and its referants to another program
19:52:52
White_Flame
Harag: since common lisp is an image based system, the running lisp *is* already an OS.
19:57:22
dlowe
The running lisp isn't an OS. wtf. There's no interrupt handling, no drivers, no DMA, no anything that qualifies
19:58:55
White_Flame
dlowe: right, the hardware tends to be abstracted away, but it still loosely counts in terms of managing your execution environment
19:59:22
dlowe
What's needed is an army of programmers to write hardware drivers and interfaces and code to coordinate between them all.
19:59:49
White_Flame
why not, at least in the interim, take advantage of all that which already is there in extant OSes
20:00:22
White_Flame
but the "comprehensive lisp-based user environment" still isn't built up, at least not to the level of lisp machines
20:03:40
Harag
:White_Flame what are the components that need to make up the lisp-based user environment? This stuff is far out of my scope of experience so excuse the obviously dumb questions
20:04:04
White_Flame
running multiple graphical applications in a full-screen environment in a single lisp image
20:10:17
Harag
:White_Flame ...ok so you are saying that some one should start working on VR user interface instead or even better a direct brain interface... that way it might be ready by the time the non lisp world has implemented there version *wink* *wink*
20:16:41
Harag
Jokes aside is "comprehensive lisp-based user environment" such a difficult thing to do or is their just not enough will power and manpower out there?
20:18:01
White_Flame
commercial ventures unified development both of teams creating lisp machines with full lisp OSes, as well as unifying Common Lisp from all the naturally fragmented lisps before it
20:21:22
Harag
:White_Flame ...yes I remember the days before I went full lisp... I never rolled my own
20:39:32
jack_rabbit
Hey, jackdaniel. I was looking at ECL, and it looks like it's actively developed. I don't see any releases since ~2016. (https://common-lisp.net/project/ecl/static/files/release/) Are there any plans to publish new releases of ECL?