freenode/#lisp - IRC Chatlog
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16:53:58
akater
An example: http://dwim.hu/darcsweb/darcsweb.cgi?r=HEAD%20hu.dwim.walker;a=headblob;f=/source/function.lisp
16:54:34
jmercouris
I'm glad it works for them, but to be completely frank, I find the source in that file unacceptable
16:58:16
akater
I'd say if indentation or highlight is difficult to adjust, it is a flaw of its implementation in the editor.
17:01:04
jmercouris
akater: I would say its really hard to make an editor for Common Lisp due to the control you have over the language
17:01:25
jmercouris
the user could do all sorts of things to sabotage the effectiveness of the editor :D
17:02:19
akater
If emacs had indentation/highlighting templates along the lines of "indent this form like defclass", there would be no issues with non-standard syntax at all, I believe.
17:03:12
akater
Maybe it has, and I just did not discover it. But when I tried to highlight everything that starts with def the way defun is highlighted, I failed.
17:05:04
akater
Have to admit, I'm never happy when programming Elisp. Would like to jump ship as soon as somewhat decent alternative is there.
17:09:40
ggole
Emacs does have indentation control, see the docstring of common-lisp-indent-function
17:11:35
ggole
I don't think there is a particularly smooth way to automatically set that up when editing some random file of CL code, though
17:13:03
dlowe
It does occur to me that since guile supports elisp and guile supports scheme, that it might be possible to write a CL frontend to guile
17:13:58
jmercouris
why does it need to exist? it really doesn't, could have easily been an implementation of CL
17:14:47
dlowe
It was the official extension language - I imagine a scheme was just easier to sandbox
19:42:58
jackdaniel
if I had to guess, CL is too intimidating to be official "extension" language for GNU
19:44:19
jackdaniel
(and I'm sure many people here will disagree, but taking another guess - these people think CL is superior to most languages what kind of proves the point)
19:47:01
dlowe
rms didn't really like CL all that much and I think that was probably the deciding factor
19:51:52
verisimilitude
He doesn't care for keyword arguments; I can't write that I agree with him there.
19:52:51
verisimilitude
Scheme is decidedly more lightweight and perhaps better suited to writing heavily specialized extensions, compared to CL where the focus is more on writing portable systems, instead.
20:58:56
LdBeth
Well, most GNU language implementation are now inactive, APL, Eiffel, Simula, Ada, Smalltalk
21:21:32
LdBeth
verisimilitude: I guess not using git for development suggests it haven’t been updated for a while.
21:26:50
rpg
Hey, I have a pragmatic question about SLIME usage. Is there some way I can associate SLIME hints (e.g., "this is how you should indent this construct") with an ASDF system? I'm not sure if a CL system can push information at a SLIME client.
4:15:54
fiddlerwoaroof
My impression is that RMS dislikes Common Lisp because of his experience with Symbolics
4:16:29
fiddlerwoaroof
I forget where I read it, but part of the impetus behind the GPL was the way Symbolics took the LispOS code MIT developed and commercialized it
4:16:50
fiddlerwoaroof
I believe there's a thread on the emacs mailing list or somewhere where he rants about this
4:17:47
fiddlerwoaroof
My impression of dwim.hu was that it was a web application platform that some people tried building a consultancy on
4:18:35
fiddlerwoaroof
CL is in an interesting space where, even if you don't like the language as standardized, you can build up your own language on top of it and leverage the libraries in the community at large
4:20:47
fiddlerwoaroof
dwim.hu somewhat intentionally wrote there software in the "dwim.hu" dialect of CL
4:22:50
beach
It is entirely possible that it wasn't easy to get good performm out of a Common Lisp implementation on stock hardware at the time rms started GNU. But now, rms is no longer involved in software development as far as I can tell. He is doing what nobody else seems to be able to do, namely giving talks about free software.
4:23:45
fiddlerwoaroof
beach: I wish I remembered where I read it, but my impression is that he was mostly annoyed with the way Symbolics commercialized MIT's lisp machine