freenode/#lisp - IRC Chatlog

23:08:38 jasom zch: I wrote a *bad* example of a web application using common lisp; it works, but I wouldn't necessarily suggest it as a shining beacon of design.

23:10:24 zch jasom: Well, I was trying to show a fellow that CL is probably fine for writing web applications, so perhaps a *bad* example would scare him off haha

23:11:50 jasom zch: D:

23:11:56 jasom :D rather

23:11:59 jasom ACTION cannot type today

23:12:53 jasom The frontend code isn't too scary: https://github.com/jasom/cl-fccs/blob/master/src/view.lisp

23:13:24 jasom there's a react version in the history as well, but I dropped react as it was slow and hard to debug compared to mithril.

23:14:04 whartung how is the back end so bad then? At that level, it’s hardly a web app, really, right? just a bunch of client server?

23:14:36 jasom whartung: I said "This is simple I don't need a routing library" and then I proceeded to accidentally write a routing library

23:14:43 whartung heh

23:14:44 whartung yea

23:15:12 jasom granted the entire routing library is less than 50 lines of code, but still...

23:15:15 jasom https://github.com/jasom/cl-fccs/blob/master/src/route.lisp

23:16:05 jasom also it uses mongrel2 as the webserver, which is both unusual and not in quicklisp

23:17:07 jasom also the backend uses a key-value store because I didn't understand sql at the time

23:19:21 jasom Actually, now that I think about it, it should work with other clack backends, but the mongrel2 clack backend supports per-worker-thread bindings, which I take advantage of for having 1 persistent DB connection per worker. If anyone knows how to get that to work with e.g. hunchentoot, let me know.

23:20:51 jasom It also uses an NIH half-assed object system that is portable between parenscript and CL.

23:21:42 jasom https://github.com/jasom/cl-fccs/blob/master/src/ps-compat.lisp#L202 <-- at least the doc string is honest.

23:21:49 fiddlerwoaroof jscl now has CLOS...

23:22:01 jasom fiddlerwoaroof: jscl didn't have loop when I wrote this.

23:22:07 fiddlerwoaroof yeah

23:23:32 jasom Also it uses immutableJS poorly, which was a last-ditch effort to get react to have anywhere near acceptible performance on android.

23:23:33 fiddlerwoaroof I've been off-and-on working of a pure-js implementation of AMOP's generic function protocols

23:23:58 jasom (in my last sentence "it" refers to my webapp, not jscl)

23:26:19 jasom I'll start working on it again if I ever get a fantasy craft group together again. I learned a lot while doing it though.

23:29:06 jasom ACTION works in embedded software by day, so webapps are something he learns only in his free time

1:19:47 [X-Scale] ** NICK X-Scale

1:22:36 LdBeth good evening

1:47:31 equwal good morning

1:54:53 [X-Scale] ** NICK X-Scale

2:53:34 jcowan If I were to go to ELS it would have to be by ship. Probably as freight.

2:58:33 fiddlerwoaroof I wonder if there's an audience for an LA-area lisp conference

2:58:42 fiddlerwoaroof or at least a mini conference

2:58:49 fiddlerwoaroof There's a bunch of clojure stuff

3:09:14 Jachy I met the CL Cookbook maintainer once at a clojure meetup, so you might find interest crashing those and inviting people?

4:02:53 makomo morning!

4:03:07 elderK Moin1 :)

4:24:25 elderK Guys, is there a way to use macroexpand inside of a macrolet form?

4:24:45 elderK :) So far when I've found code that uses macrolet, I've had to factor the macros out to be global so that I can expand them to learn from.

4:25:59 Bike (defmacro expand-helper (form &environment env) `',(macroexpand-1 form env)) (macrolet ((foo () ...)) (expand-helper (foo))) i think

4:26:45 White_Flame I tend to copy/paste it out

4:26:51 White_Flame the macrolet and the macro usage

4:27:22 White_Flame throw a (list ...) in or something to the expansion isnt' evaluated

4:34:57 makomo elderK: emacs' package macrostep (and the accompanying SLIME contrib) can expand macrolets for you in-place

4:35:19 elderK makomo: That requires Emacs :P

4:35:24 makomo of course :-D

6:31:05 beach Good morning everyone!

6:31:28 beach dim: Thanks. I'll have a look.

6:49:36 fiddlerwoaroof Yeah, as bike points out this is what &environment is for

7:27:03 Inline morning

7:29:50 no-defun-allowed morning Inline

8:10:11 emaczen What are the performance differences between CFFI and a FFI provided by a CL compiler?

8:10:24 emaczen CL implementation*

8:11:52 no-defun-allowed i think it should be zilch-ish since most of CFFI would be wrappers like most compatibility packages (closer-mop, bordeaux-threads, usocket, etc etc)

8:17:51 p_l emaczen: there might be a small overhead, probably on the order of one-two funcalls depending on what you're doing exactly, can also drop to as low as zero

8:18:54 jackdaniel ecl's default static methods is tens of times faster (but it can't be used by default with cffi due to (fixable) architectural problem in the library)

8:19:20 jackdaniel but in principle cffi expands into whatever your implementation provides, so overhead is most likely close to 0 indeed

8:23:46 jackdaniel i.e defcfun on sbcl expands into (defun foo () (alien-funcall (some-alien-internals)))

9:20:03 lumm_ ** NICK lumm

9:33:09 fiddlerwoaroof I wish there was a way to express a composition of FFI calls without an intermediate FFI boundary

9:33:38 fiddlerwoaroof I guess ECL has an inline C feature?

9:41:00 lumm_ ** NICK lumm

9:41:57 jackdaniel it does (I'm leaving right now, so I won't answer next question :-)

9:43:10 loke` fiddlerwoaroof: It does, and it's very neat.

10:18:47 muyinliu It's there function md5sum-file exists in LispWorks ? (ironclad:digest-file :md5 xxx) seems very slow on LispWorks(1G file took 2345s).

10:21:44 beach muyinliu: Freenode is for free software. For commercial Common Lisp implementations, you are better off contacting the supplier directly .

10:24:52 McParen isnt having a stable commercial vendor beneficial for the free ecosystem too?

10:25:30 beach Maybe so, but that's beside the point.