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3:59:06
ski
(<https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/e/e9/Commodore-64-Computer-FL.jpg>. cursor arrows are on bottom right. shift needed to go up and left. C128 added four separate cursor keys)
4:36:49
White_Flame
petscii has an up-arrow for exponentation in BASIC, and a left-arrow for ... nothing in particular?
4:37:24
White_Flame
a lot of DOS wedges used it, but other than that it's basically like any other graphics glyph. Not sure why it got its own key
4:40:32
no-defun-allowed
(in gnu smalltalk, `x _ 2` assigns 2 to x, so i assume that the codepoint was also used by <-)
4:51:17
ski
hm, Turbo Assembler uses left-arrow as an escape key (cf. `^A' in GNU Screen). perhaps it was intended that applications could use it like that ?
5:42:44
oni-on-ion
for a big standard theres a lot of libs. uiop, alexandria, trivia, optima, series, incf-cl; does anyone know the status of the most recent/complete CL community spec? i forget what it was called.
5:47:04
beach
I think the work on the UltraSpec is stalled. You can ask phoe who is the one who starte it.
6:27:00
jackdaniel
for instance the one written by Didier Verna about format interpretation differences (and proposal of how to unify them)
6:50:54
elderK
I really wanna play more with Lisp atm but RSI is acting up :| WANNA HACK. But shouldn't
6:56:45
elderK
Thanks shka_. The RSI seems to come in fits and bursts. It gets really bad for a time and then... seems to vanish.
7:01:19
shka_
in my case, i switched into different keyboard layout (colemak) and this seems to helped, but my evidence is purely anecdotal and therefore you may ignore this
7:01:43
shka_
for sure learning how to type with all the fingers instead of the 3 on each hand helped
7:05:22
elderK
Nice :) I need to invest in a new ergonomic keyboard. My last was destroyed due to well, acids. That's a long story.
7:05:52
elderK
And yeah, bad habits are surprisingly easy to slip back into wrt posture and typing and stuff.
7:06:39
jackdaniel
if you abstract things as macro you'll type less, your wrists will heal back and we'll praise the elaborate macro system in Common Lisp ;-)
7:09:11
elderK
:( Aye. I've had it... for some time. Other than get a new keyboard and try to adjust my angles - and make sure I don't "skip" exercizes, I'm not sure what else to do.
7:09:53
elderK
I mean, from what you've said, you know how it goes. Sometimes, it's merely annoying. Other times, it's so bad you have trouble holding a cup.
7:10:46
elderK
One thing I need, is a proper... desk space. I have a very... skewed setup, mostly due to space.
7:18:54
oni-on-ion
ive no desk or chair, on floor, need to work something out here for the real coding sessions
7:21:36
jackdaniel
given lack of context answer it is a list with letter n in front is as good as any other
11:43:16
scymtym
carmack: at least here, both work fine (the ccl one redirects to the HTTPS version, that is https://ccl.clozure.com/irc-logs/lisp/ , immediately)
13:50:31
jcowan
The main difference is that SRFIs don't get finalized until there is an implementation, preferably a portable one, or at the very least a strong implementation sketch (at the editors' discretion). A SRFI can't be a naked idea.
14:50:03
luis
Ahrg. I suck at remembering names. I was discussing some vlime/swank ideas with someone here the other day but I don't remember their nickname.
15:21:11
luis
sjl, flip214: in discussion at $WORK it occurred to me that another interesting use-case for thinking about the conversion from SWANK sexps to JSON would be the implementation of an LSP server (langserver.org). I suppose the hook we were discussing could be used to convert between SWANK sexps and LSP messages as well (but there might be other proto
15:21:12
luis
col requirements). In any case, I don't if this langserver protocol is a good match for Lisp; maybe it's fine for some features.
15:21:59
luis
But, maybe an LSP server just needs to call SWANK operations and massage the messages into the LSP format.
15:22:36
sjl_
I think an LSP server for Lisp would be good, because it would add editor support to a ton of other editors for free. People could ease their way into things instead of hitting the "you must learn emacs" wall immediately.
15:23:44
Xach
I'm really curious about the capability. I hope it's not like other situations where the relatively rare features of Lisp make a generic underlying thing unsuitable (or at least difficult)
15:23:55
sjl_
And yeah, I'd imagine an LSP server would mostly just use SWANK as a utility library to do the heavy lifting on the backend. LSP has a pretty specific set of messages it wants, I don't think it corresponds 1:1 with swank's protocol
15:25:52
dim
LSP is about a “language server that can provide code completion, hover tooltips, jump-to-definition, find-references, and more”
15:26:07
fe[nl]ix
luis: I doubt it has any support for restarts, restarting frames in the debugger, etc...
15:26:49
dim
I'd be surprise that there's something so strange about editing lisp code that the LSP protocol wouldn't make sense, it's just that they won't probably include the listener?
15:27:05
luis
Sure, but it's probably good to have those features handled the IDE's LSP-aware functionality and focus on Lisp-specific features.
15:28:38
dim
then later when they see what SLIME offers with a full REPL including debugging and the listener they might want to reconsider the traditional edit/compile/run cycle, but well
15:29:50
luis
dim: my point is that you want to write a Lisp plugin for cool-editor-of-the-day, you can get the LSP features for free and focus on implementing Lisp-specific features like the REPL/restarts/whatever
15:30:17
jackdaniel
I think it didn't provide any means for interactive development. otoh I don't think they would object if someone would propose such features for the next version of this protocol
15:34:08
sjl_
It doesn't have to have feature parity with emacs immediately -- there's value in having *some* support in other editors even if it's not perfect.
15:39:59
sjl_
When I looked at LSP it didn't have anything REPL-related in it. But of course you can use the vanilla SBCL REPL for the server process (with rlwrap or linedit or whatever).
15:41:03
sjl_
And LSP does have some capability negotiation built-in, so you could have the LSP server advertise an "evaluateForm" action and if the editor plugin supports it, cool. Or the user could map it themselves.
15:41:12
dim
yeah you could have the REPL on the side and just reload the whole project each time you want to play in there, with (ql:quickload "current-project") after editing
15:42:05
dim
when doing extensive changes, or changes in exported symbols in several packages, then I often do that anyway at the REPL before continuing with my testing/fiddling around
15:42:57
luis
Some of LSP's messages are things like "user opened this file" or "here are the whole/changed contents of this opened file". We probably don't want to do anything in that case. BTW, this is not just for cool-editor-of-the-day, apparently there are some LSP-aware packages for Emacs, though it seems sad to use JSON-RPC instead of Elisp/sexps in that