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9:50:34
flip214
fiddlerwoaroof: in one of my projects, just before writing the core I do (cffi:close-foreign-library :libosicat)
9:54:33
jackdaniel
hint: if you do the same trick with cl+ssl you also need to call cl+ssl:reload after loading all ffi libraries anew
9:56:54
fiddlerwoaroof
If I build sbcl with the linkable runtime, etc, I can statically link osicat into the dumped image and not depend on the shared object at all
9:59:32
luis
fiddlerwoaroof: static-program-op is undocumented isn't it? If you'd like to submit some documentation for it that'd be great, even if it were just a draft
10:02:32
fiddlerwoaroof
It forks a second sbcl, but passing *features* from the parent to the child doesn't happen, which breaks ASDF's conditional compilation features
10:03:04
fiddlerwoaroof
And then, on OSX, I think you basically have to use libtool to build .a files and not ar
10:05:04
luis
Sounds good. I'm not terribly familiar with static-program-op, it was submitted by Fare. The more context you can provide in a future pull request the better.
10:09:00
beach
Hmm. ENSURE-GENERIC-FUNCTION takes a METHOD-COMBINATION metaobject as one of its keyword arguments. So DEFGENERIC must convert the :METHOD-COMBINATION argument to a METHOD-COMBINATION metaobject before calling ENSURE-GENERIC-FUNCTION. But this can not be done by calling FIND-METHOD-COMBINATION, because FIND-METHOD-COMBINATION takes a generic function as its first argument, and we don't have one yet.
10:09:26
fiddlerwoaroof
luis, jackdaniel: It saves a runtime image with stuff statically linked in and then uses that to rebuild the system
10:12:18
fiddlerwoaroof
This also seems to have the side-effect of losing the output file defined in the system definition of the system being dumped. and putting the binary in ~/.cache
10:15:00
luis
fiddlerwoaroof: it seems to propagate asdf:*central-registry*, so maybe it needs to propagate more stuff. Seems brittle, though. (I'm reading the code from my phone, which is not ideal.)
10:23:48
Lycurgus
ACTION is suddenly curious of any package does do a full fork as opposed to threading
10:26:27
Lycurgus
see that a host of them would in an idiosyncratic way, e.g. gbbopen's module system
10:26:44
jackdaniel
marking it as "experimental" in potential manual (or even issuing a warning) might be a good idea
10:28:23
Lycurgus
is that gonna be a thing, people talking across each other like that (experimental/experiential) ?
10:55:28
adlai
Lycurgus: sometimes a joke requires recalibrating the humors, or at the very least, careful rereading.
11:03:22
Lycurgus
adlai, recalibrate all the humors! populists talking to populists and elites talking to elites was what I had in mind.
11:12:45
Xof
beach: you can use the class-prototype of the generic function class in ensure-generic-function-using-class
11:19:46
beach
Xof: The way I read it is that it's too late then. ENSURE-GENERIC-FUNCTION must be passed a METHOD-COMBINATION metaobject.
11:21:15
beach
But I guess I could look it up in the DEFGENERIC macro before calling ENSURE-GENERIC-FUNCTION.
11:22:04
beach
Xof: It doesn't matter. I have a differnt SICL-specific function that does not take the generic function argument. I'll just use that.
13:31:55
jebes
is there a next browser irc? Trying to debug the buffer switching problem and i'm completely clueless
13:43:22
Lucretia
in ch6 of land of lisp, there are some functions, (say-hello) and (add-five), neither in sbcl, output the first string, it sits there waiting for input and on entering the input, it displays the message. any ideas?
13:45:03
Lucretia
https://bpaste.net/show/9d8cdfe8b3b8 line 2 is not displayed until after line 3 is executed
13:50:21
beach
Lucretia: The output is buffered. You may have to call FINISH-OUTPUT to empty the buffer.
14:48:35
fiddlerwoaroof
I've also tried atom-slime and it works, but I've never heard of anyone that uses it.
18:07:21
jmercouris
hey everyone, indiegogo campaign finished, we raised 1850$ for working on Next, thank you to everyone that contributed
18:07:58
jmercouris
I hope to deliver something that will work nicely on macOS and Linux, I'll post any new major releases in this channel, but so far, things are going well
18:40:15
jmercouris
deprecation warnings in general are annoying, as are deprecations and any system behavior changes
18:49:13
fiddlerwoaroof
Yeah, but adding arbitrary rules to a central part of a programming ecosystem should only be done for really serious reasons
18:50:21
fiddlerwoaroof
Plus, as far as I can tell these changes were pushed through without community buy-in
18:51:44
|3b|
as far as i can tell, nobody wants to help maintain asdf, so they get what they get :/
19:08:46
jackdaniel
last time I've tried to contribute to asdf I had a very draining discussion about merge request, but there is a chance that the problem was an incompatibility of my personality with the peer reviewer (so I gave up)
19:32:46
fiddlerwoaroof
Eventually I'll get around to writing lisp bindings to Linux's cgroups stuff
19:59:58
jmercouris
fiddlerwoaroof: how is the obj-c bridge going via CFFI? did you get the SBCL app to actually work?
20:00:57
jmercouris
s/compilese/compiles - too much time in a foreign country, my language skills are really messed up
20:01:20
jmercouris
though if you wait a little bit, like maybe a month or so, there should be a new Linux release
20:02:16
mercourisj
with almost no dependencies, possibly distributed via your package manager or flatpak, undecided
20:22:06
fiddlerwoaroof
jmercouris: it works pretty well for me, but the code isn't in a great state for someone else to understand what's going on :)
20:22:31
fiddlerwoaroof
ccl is more reliable than sbcl as far as producing a working app bundle goes, though
20:23:36
mercourisj
that's where I figured a lot of the CCL code spent time, making a compatibility layer with Cocoa itself, which you'd have to reinvent and manually invoke
20:23:40
fiddlerwoaroof
Nah, as long as you disable sbcl's attempts to catch floating point exceptions, the two runtimes get along pretty nicely
20:23:58
mercourisj
interesting, so it is a separate cocoa process you are invoking and interoping with?
20:24:50
fiddlerwoaroof
The part I haven't had time to figure out is things like turning objective-c errors into lisp exceptions
20:25:45
mercourisj
and leaves lots of space for all sorts of features to make their way into production code
20:26:07
fiddlerwoaroof
ccl has an advantage here in that it was actually developed by Apple/Next for a while, as I understand it, so they've already done a lot of the hard work implementing the bridge
20:26:40
mercourisj
I remember talking to RME about the lineage and it was a little bit different than what I thought
20:27:25
fiddlerwoaroof
"Well anyway, after that some stuff happened, and Apple ended up acquiring Coral Software because Apple at the time was using Lisp and Smalltalk and other dynamic languages to do their research. So that happened"
20:29:05
fiddlerwoaroof
It went, as I understand Coral Comon Lisp -> MCL/OpenMCL -> Clozure Common Lisp
20:31:04
fiddlerwoaroof
Anyways, my bridge is really useful for the sorts of things one might use Applescript for already
20:31:28
fiddlerwoaroof
E.g., here's a little demo of getting the current itunes track info: https://github.com/fiddlerwoaroof/objc-lisp-bridge/blob/master/scripting-bridge.lisp
20:32:12
fiddlerwoaroof
And here's a little bit of code I wrote for converting Safari's reading list into an org-mode file: https://github.com/fiddlerwoaroof/objc-lisp-bridge/blob/master/reading-list-reader.lisp
20:33:40
fiddlerwoaroof
(I actually run that one in a cronjob so I can refile my reading list stuff into my bookmarks.org file)
20:35:15
fiddlerwoaroof
But, my current project (slowly progressing project) is to figure out Mcclim so I can either ressurect the beagle backend using my system or write a new backend
20:38:25
mercourisj
fiddlerwoaroof: what's that license on the code you posted? Can I include it in Next?
21:10:57
fiddlerwoaroof
And, I don't notice any direct dependencies that are incompatible with such a license