freenode/#lisp - IRC Chatlog
Search
11:00:32
beach
Anyway, it seems we are going different directions, so forget about my invitation to SICL and Cleavir. If you are right, it means I will hit the wall sometime in the future.
11:03:39
beach
so how do you like this one: (defclass symbol (...) ((symbol-name ...) (symbol-package ...)) (:metaclass built-in-class))?
11:10:14
frodef
beach: bootstrap in what sense? It's basicall all regular CL code that generates the bytes that make up a bootable x86 image.
11:12:22
beach
If so, does that mean that large parts of the system are written in some subset of Common Lisp like most existing Common Lisp implementations do?
11:12:27
frodef
beach: kind of I guess.. it's just another part of CL, implemented partly with "simpler" parts of CL and partly with.. well, inline assembly, I guess.
11:13:02
beach
I decided that for SICL, it was going to be too hard to maintain if I had to use a subset for some parts.
11:15:05
frodef
that doesn't quite suffice.. I assume you don't have e.g. (defun sort (&rest args) (apply 'sort args)) an dso on.._
11:17:24
beach
(defun car (x) (cond ((consp x) (cleavir-primop:car x)) ((null x) x) (t (error...))))
11:17:51
LdBeth
https://web.archive.org/web/20141209230003/http://cl-www.msi.co.jp/reports/wblcl.pdf
11:20:03
beach
frodef: One goal with SICL is to have excellent error messages and excellent debugging support.
11:22:17
frodef
seriously, unix's lack of dynamic error handling and debugging is what makes all software so shitty, I'm convinced.
11:39:46
jackdaniel
borodust: that link is actual attorney analysis about LGPL for Lisp (luckily conclusions are the same as mine) ↑
11:44:52
borodust
i'm gonna read full text, but conclusion still mentions LGPL doesn't cover some Lisp aspects (macros are specifically mentioned)
11:47:58
no-defun-allowed
Or, write in 64. It's self evaluating so it was evaluated before it even got to lisp.
11:48:37
jackdaniel
LdBeth: because software licenses are often about source code; macro is a way of transferring one code into another
11:49:02
jackdaniel
in this sense it is a compiler. borodust and in this light macros are results of calling library functions
11:49:42
jackdaniel
and even GPL doesn't cover resulting work of the application (i.e gcc doesn't relicense your binaries you build with it)
11:50:41
jackdaniel
jdz: if you bundle gcc with an application (and they are combined work), then indeed what you have is a derivative
13:32:23
shka_
for instance, here https://github.com/sirherrbatka/cl-data-structures/blob/8d7086fe1ca631b5287c9fb9c9a07013fa1302a9/src/common/rrb/common.lisp#L5
13:35:35
shka_
jackdaniel: 5 corresponds to 32 bits, if you want to switch to 64 bits, you can change it to 6, recompile and voila, it works
13:39:12
jackdaniel
maybe word cool mislead me into overthinking and trying to find any non-trivial usage of this operator
16:22:38
meepdeew
Does anyone know if (and if so, where) one can find electronic copies of either of the following books recommended in the preface of PAIP: (1) A Programmer's Guide to Common Lisp by Deborah G . Tatar, or (2) Common Lisp by Wade L. Hennessey.
16:23:50
phoe
meepdeew: they both concern CLtL1 as far as I understand, and no contemporary implementations I know are CLtL1 implementations
16:24:13
phoe
unless you have a very specialized need, I bet you'd be more interested in books about contemporary Common Lisp.
16:26:08
meepdeew
Ah, well then that's even better than an electronic copy, I suppose. The cover art of a person lounging on the beach on Hennessey's book had really drawn me in.
16:27:36
meepdeew
Thanks phoe. Before I proceed any further then, do you know if Common LISPcraft by Robert Wilensky or LISP (3rd edition) by Patrick H. Winston and Bertold Horn are also CLtL1 specific as well?
16:29:27
minion
meepdeew: please look at pcl: pcl-book: "Practical Common Lisp", an introduction to Common Lisp by Peter Seibel, available at http://www.gigamonkeys.com/book/ and in dead-tree form from Apress (as of 11 April 2005).
16:29:31
minion
meepdeew: please see gentle: "Common Lisp: A Gentle Introduction to Symbolic Computation" is a smoother introduction to lisp programming. http://www.cs.cmu.edu/~dst/LispBook/
16:31:29
phoe
all in all, Portacle + PCL/Gentle is the beginner's toolkit that I'd suggest for the start.
16:36:36
meepdeew
That's the goal. I've read Gentle, and much of PCL. Was looking into starting PAIP as my next but saw Gentle at the top of Norvig's recommended intro books in the preface so I figured his list was worth checking out (thus the questions). Thanks for the input, I'll see which I prefer between CLRecipes and PAIP for my next. /end my noobing up of the #lisp channel
17:11:23
aeth
I'd go with Recipies. It was published too late for me, but reading through the book, it generally agrees with the consensus of this channel in most places. The main exception seems to be cl-fad instead of uiop iirc, but that's literally the book author's library so it's no surprise he prefers it.
18:38:41
flip214
beach: hmmm, I'm used to seeing address 0 at the bottom of the page. Never mind, though.
22:20:57
makomo
AeroNotix: hey, i was talking a look at your z80 repo and found a bug: your UPDATEF macro has 2 problems: (1) variable capture, (2) multiple evaluation