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0:39:45
pjb
White_Flame: https://www.informatimago.com/develop/lisp/com/informatimago/small-cl-pgms/ibcl/index.html
0:55:44
White_Flame
I know there were some very simple Lisps for the C64; with that thing having much more ram it could have been more viable
1:08:28
v0|d
White_Flame: designing a board w/ more ram is painful w/o 4-6lyrs. Not sure they have the tech back in then.
1:17:42
White_Flame
I don't know the details of boad design that affects it, but I'll take your word there
1:20:07
v0|d
White_Flame: sry, I wasn't tryng to be right. Her eyou go https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0YdLZAQSOa4
1:24:33
no-defun-allowed
just get this running in cc65 and you'll have half a lisp https://raw.githubusercontent.com/8l/openvmtil/master/lib/sl3.c
1:26:15
no-defun-allowed
i imagine you could pretend the c64 was a stack machine since there's few registers
1:28:36
White_Flame
I made my own 16-bit environment for the purpose: https://acheronvm.github.io/acheronvm/
6:36:02
asarch
One stupid question: Is SB-EXT:SAVE-LISP-AND-DIE the same with Smalltalk about the images?
6:37:04
beach
I don't know about Smalltalk images, but it saves the entire image into a "core" file that can then be used as an argument to start up SBCL later.
6:38:40
beach
People complain that it creates a big file, but that is a problem only if you are planning to create thousands of small applications, or if you have an embedded system with very little memory.
6:39:17
beach
Oh, and there is an option to create an executable file too, so no core file required in that case.
6:39:36
asarch
I studied the log from the other day (when I did a mess with packages) and I found what went wrong
6:39:40
zigpaw
they are close enough, there are some limitations you'll see more limiting in SBCL than in Squeak/Pharo, the "one active thread only" will prevent you from having gui app dumped to image, in smalltalk you get that taken care of itself.
6:40:46
asarch
Since I was desperate to make my example to work, I couldn't read that :clim cannot be used it directly
6:42:43
zigpaw
on the other hand, when learning sometimes it is good to do the not recommended, just to learn why it is so ;)
6:43:51
asarch
I found a working example at: /home/asarch/quicklisp/dists/quicklisp/software/mcclim-20180711-git/README.md
6:54:50
beach
But, in addition, it is recommended that you do not :USE packages other than a small number (I only ever :USE the COMMON-LISP package) that you trust not to change.
6:58:24
beach
Pretty much all I do from the REPL is to have ASDF compile a package, start an application, or run some tests.
6:58:31
zigpaw
when learning and writting throw-away code in repl, I think it is free-for-all if you know the rules/good-practices you are breaking ;-)
7:00:55
beach
And, yes, of course, you can't wait until you know all the rules before you start writing code.
7:08:29
aeth
I only :USE CL and my own libraries. If I broke something in the latter, I know it's my fault.
8:06:54
beach
So the Common Lisp HyperSpec explicitly allows for the implementation to define additional options for DEFGENERIC and DEFCLASS. I am wondering how existing implementations take advantage of this liberty and what additional options would benefit SICL.
11:49:22
AeroNotix
"the trick is to understand the basic feature of lisp which is taught in the 2nd part of the 5 minute introduction to lisp."
11:50:54
beach
I have been accused of elitism for saying that I think it would be a good idea for professional programmers to have some formal training in programming.
11:54:53
jackdaniel
it could be understood, that formal education would be a formal requirement to be allowed to program professionally, that is a kind of elitism (not necessarily in bad sense, *but* we have many proficient programmers who are self-taught)
11:56:43
no-defun-allowed
Tomorrow I hope to publish cl-decentralise, my journey into decentralised information things.
11:56:57
no-defun-allowed
It's way faster than blockchains, syncing faster than I can watch a screen.
11:57:28
no-defun-allowed
It manages a table of blocks and versions which hold data and synchronise them over, aiming to hold the most blocks with the highest version numbers.
12:01:02
beach
jackdaniel: It seems like in software development we go to far the other direction. High-school drop-outs are considered heroes, and people with formal training are considered "elitist".
12:01:05
no-defun-allowed
There's no blockchain, smart contracts or any bullshit. It's a bullshit free backbone.
12:02:06
AeroNotix
no-defun-allowed: distributed consensus protocols aren't inherently required to be "blockchains"
12:02:26
AeroNotix
beach: I think there's a huge difference in academic programming and industry programming
12:02:54
no-defun-allowed
I'm only tying the developers to one assumption, that there is a definite "latest" state in their environment.
12:03:21
AeroNotix
beach: academics think their work is a superset of all of industry work, it's just not the case at all. I find a lot of elitism stems from the belief it is a superset and therefore where all of industry programming is heading and techniques learned in academia MUST eventually be used in industry
12:03:23
no-defun-allowed
The protocol is symmetrical, so you can have two REPLs connected to each other, with hooks to announce new information too.
12:03:45
jackdaniel
beach: as I said, I don't consider "elitism" a bad thing, I'm just saying that the quoted claim is elitist *and* that being "elitism" is not a drawback. also noted, that such status-based elitism may hurt people, who could be perceived as an elite from "skill" perspective. but I'm getting into offtopic, sorry :)
12:04:14
no-defun-allowed
I'll release it tomorrow, I just have to make a synchronous-ish API for clients and do some final testing.