11:20:57jmercourisI can't imagine how the hyperspec could engage anyone to read it cover to cover
11:29:52shrdlu68For beginners, Graham's "Ansi Common Lisp" might be a better entry point.
11:31:56shrdlu68I know it's not popular here, being a pre-standard work, but I thoroughly enjoyed reading CLTL, and I've seen others echo the same sentiment here.
11:35:28kuribasjmercouris: yeah, it seems rather dry, and filled with minute details
11:36:02shrdlu68It's an excellent reference once you're comfortable with the language, though.
11:37:57jmercourisYeah, it would be like suggesting somebody read a dictionary to learn english
11:38:24kuribasI did learn python by reading the spec...
11:38:41jmercourisIf it works for you, what can I say :D
11:54:49p_lkuribas: there's no such thing as python spec, afaik :)
11:55:12p_lyou have the mess of special cases known as CPython, and a bunch of projects that try to run the same stuff
11:57:42LdBethThe Python compiler was included in CMUCL’s source tree
12:17:48xificurCkuribas: I know PCL (practical common lisp), LoL (Land of Lisp), another LOL (let over lambda), On Lisp, Lisp in Small Pieces, PAIP you mentioned, AMOP (the Art of the MetaObject Protocol). Surely there's more. I started with PCL which was recommended to me, I think here in IRC. I also enjoyed LoL. The others are probably not written as a guide to
12:49:20kuribasisn't there a reference which is a bit more friendly than hyperspec?
12:49:56shkai like Common Lisp The Language second edition for that
12:50:09beachkuribas: I am unaware of a reference other than the Common Lisp HyperSpec. But CLtL2 is a good book. You just have to be careful about stuff that did not end up in the standard.
12:50:26Xachkuribas: not really. the hyperspec isn't something to start with to learn, but it's a very good reference.
12:50:46kuribasoh, googling "common lisp reference" gives me quite a few interesting links
12:52:15XachThere are things that are "friendly" that don't quite act as "reference"
12:52:32Xachthe common lisp quick reference is good but perhaps not friendly...terse, though
12:52:43jackdanielkuribas: if you are interested in single pdf version of the standard, you may find it here: http://cvberry.com/tech_writings/notes/common_lisp_standard_draft.html
21:16:07pjbdesperek: don't suffer. If you've got a lisp job, resign. Stop using lisp. There are a lot of other nice programming languages.
21:16:42desperekpjb, argh i just want to convert my database!
21:17:15desperekand lol, i wouldnt even apply for lisp job
21:19:16desperekpjb, well, the thing is that i couldnt really find anything to convert db (or w/e i should call it) and pgloader looked really promising