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17:23:51
Xach
pelle: i think it's because clisp does not have asdf so it uses an old one from quicklisp.
17:25:49
pelle
Xach: yes, found out now: Clisp has an old ASDF. It's working fine in ECL though. I got some help on the #clim channel.
17:47:50
sjjssjjeejej
But at the end of the day language doesn't matter much, unless its specified for a particular job.. do you people agree?
17:59:17
jackdaniel
day ends here and it still matters to me :-) I find pleasure in using cobol for my everyday tasks ^_^
18:01:36
beach
sjjssjjeejej: I suggest you read the excellent article by Hudak and Jones that is one of the few that reports on productivity comparisons between languages.
18:06:49
sjjssjjeejej
Okay, let's take an example. You can create a simple web application using abcde, a number of languages but when you want an application to do a specific task say, learn from its previous operations and manipulate data sets by itself, would you choose a language or go with the easily available, less hectic and Understandable by others?
18:15:09
jackdaniel
I think trolling is not on the "do" side of the netiquette, more like on "don't do"
18:23:56
dlowe
I think for any and all technical questions, "it depends" is a perfectly good answer.
19:57:05
alandipert
does anyone know an example of delivering a macos app? in particular i am interested in implementing a menu bar item-type application
20:42:26
drmeister
Someone made a quote at ELS about "Lisp is the best language when you don't know what you are doing"? Does anyone remember it more accurately or seen it before?
20:48:35
drmeister
On exploratory programming - here's something I posted late last night. I'm folding DNA with Cando Common Lisp.
20:49:41
drmeister
It was a demo that I wanted to show at ELS and I almost got it together but then I discovered three copies of every structure in every viewing window.
20:50:03
drmeister
It took me another 6 hours of debugging on the plane flying back from Spain to track down the two bugs that were causing the problem.
20:51:24
drmeister
But my undergraduate Kevin whipped up a way to connect sliders to the structure viewing windows so that I could visualize the dynamics of the optimization process (seen at about 2:50 in the movie).
20:56:24
rme
http://www.nhplace.com/kent/PS/Hindsight.html is a nice article about why Lisp is good at exploratory programming
20:59:09
drmeister
rme: Glancing at it (I'll read it carefully later) - that looks like a really nice article - thank you.
21:01:41
jeosol
guys, need some help. When working with parallel code via threads, and there is an error with a thread that acquired a lock, how do I say kill that thread without having to rerun my case. I am running sbcl on the shell (no slime)
21:02:15
jeosol
I can see the threads with (bt:all-threads) and I try (bt:destroy-thread ....) but I didn't quite get what I wanted
21:04:28
jeosol
When I run (bt:all-threads), I see that the status of one of the threads has something like "acquiring (or acquired) lock ..". and the other threads seem to be in normal state. Since there is an error with the thread that acquired the lock, everything stalls
21:07:29
copec
I suggest that because it seems you would need to know how bt is implemented on top of sbcl to access state of other threads
21:13:20
devon
Any idea how to hush the CCL CFFI warning ; bare references to struct types are deprecated. Please use (:POINTER (:STRUCT ...)) or (:STRUCT ...) instead.
21:21:37
devon
rme: Yes, maybe SBCL CFFI wouldn't warn. Ah, fixed by (with-foreign-slots (#1# #2# #3#) ...) -> (with-foreign-slots (#1# #2# (:struct #3)#) ...)
21:39:18
kuwzre
is there a way to get company mode to support common lisp? I am using slime-company, but I wish that I could get the same sort of behavior when editing normal cl files
22:41:40
scymtym
then (setf (foo 2 3 4) 1) where new-value will be bound to 1 and more parameters to 2 3 4
22:43:44
ebrasca
I like to make someting like (read-short-name array) and (setf (read-short-name array) "")
22:46:49
scymtym
if i understand correctly, that would be (defun (setf read-short-name) (new-value array) ...)
23:10:23
jasom
there are some cases in which defun (setf ...) will not work, for those you can use define-setf-expander
23:18:41
jasom
the usual rule of "never use a macro when a function will do" applies. If you can think of a function that will work, you don't need a setf-expander
1:52:48
vtomole
Is there tool for seeing how objects are consed by read? e.g, an input of (+ 1 2) gives (cons '+ (cons 1 (cons 2 '())))?
2:02:12
Bike
also, it's traditional to name constants as +sempty+ to distinguish them from run of the mill variables.
2:06:07
Bike
i wouldn't phrase it as "surrounding", but (foo ...) is an operation, and if foo is a function it's a function call.
2:06:31
Bike
it could also be a macro form, like (defun ...) is, or a special operation, like (if ...)
2:07:30
k-hos
you will eventually come across things like; '(1 2 3) which isn't a function call, because of the single quote
2:10:15
Bike
if you want to understand the semantics in detail i recommend writing a simple evaluator
4:07:51
jasom
LdBeth: most lisp implementations provide a way to run a program. It is possible that uiop:run-program will do what you need
4:11:01
jasom
hmm (uiop:run-program "htop" :output :interactive) didn't work as I expected, so maybe not
4:11:02
PuercoPop
jasom: My knowledge of terminals is not very deep. But I would imagine that the REPL wouldn't play nice with a program that takes the whole screen for a while. Like htop or vim.
4:11:36
jasom
PuercoPop: the REPL is uninvolved until the form returns in most implementations, so I wouldn't think that would be a problem
4:12:11
jasom
(uiop:run-program "htop" :output :interactive :input :interactive) ;; works on sbcl on MyMachine(tm)
4:12:49
jasom
It does not work on CCL, which makes at least some sense because ccl has a separate REPL thread IIRC
4:17:09
jasom
PuercoPop: for fancy REPLs there is a good chance that the program won't return the tty to the same state as before it was run, so those might have a problem. SBCL's REPL is so minimal it's not a problem
4:17:42
jasom
LdBeth: this works on every lisp I tried except ccl: (uiop:run-program "htop" :output :interactive :input :interactive)
4:18:27
PuercoPop
I've ran into issues with two programs writing to the same terminal (webpacker and vis, the editor).
4:19:02
jasom
There's a patchset for CCL that doesn't spawn a separate thread for tty interactions, but it's not maintained anymore
4:20:14
jasom
ealfonso: there are several, each with different strengths and weaknesses. I usually just write directly on top of clack because I'm a control freak.
4:20:46
PuercoPop
LdBeth: you might be interested in cl:ed, http://www.lispworks.com/documentation/HyperSpec/Body/f_ed.htm