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8:21:30
Shinmera
If you just want to copy the function definition to another symbol you can do (setf (fdefinition 'new) (fdefinition 'old))
8:22:16
ecraven
Shinmera: the only situation where I imagine it makes sense is when the name changes, but you want to keep the old one around for some time
8:23:25
LdBeth
I would like to have the definition of new symbol changes corresponded to the old symbol
8:24:07
Shinmera
Unless you write a macro that updates the new symbol in the same definition as the old one.
8:33:02
Shinmera
LdBeth: if you need to be compatible in a library I suggest just copying the fdefinition.
8:40:28
scymtym
for backward compatible API changes, it can be useful to keep the old function, make it call the new function, mention its deprecation in the documentation string and maybe use a compiler macro or an implementation-specific mechanism to issue compile-time warnings for uses of the old function
9:14:56
jack_rabbit
Has anyone dealt with trying to save an image after compiling a file, the compilation of which causes threads to be spawned?
9:21:25
jack_rabbit
Basically, I've moved some computation to compile-time, but it involves the mcclim library, and it seems to launch CLX threads even if I'm not trying to start an application.
9:29:35
jack_rabbit
Hmmm... It seems CLIM-INTERNALS:FIND-PORT is called when trying to read a bitmap, even though the result is unused.
9:33:32
loke
jack_rabbit: Code here, in case you're brave enough to try: https://github.com/lokedhs/McCLIM/tree/freetype2
9:39:54
loke
In most distributions, Harfbuzz is compiled in together with freetype, but it's an explicit dependency since some distros don't do that.
9:46:16
loke
(however, if you do that, you need to do it before starting any clim application the first time, since it caches the prerendered glyphs_
9:47:36
loke
Sone fonts are really terrible. I need to figure out the right fontconfig query to filter out the bad ones.
9:53:36
loke
Thanks. The whole purpose of this was actually to be able to render my maths equations in mt Maxima client. Talk about rabbit hole.
10:32:37
mfiano
Guest74201: There is the defstar library for "defun with types", but note that it has a toxic GPLv3 license.
10:54:05
theemacsshibe[m]
Anyone who turns a profit on someone else's code should have to pay them for doing the work for them.
10:58:08
mfiano
GPLv3 is not compatible with a vast array of libraries. defstar would probably get a bit more attention and use if it had a more forgiving license.
10:58:57
mfiano
Sorry to start a war. It isn't compatible with the code I write, or most of its transitive dependencies, is all I meant.
11:07:39
TMA
ebrasca: I have written several pieces of GPL'd software. That was C/C++ though. On the other hand GPL'd lisp code is a strange beast. There is still that interpretation that you cannot run it on a non-gpl implementation (because then you are combining it). LLGPL does not help, it has its own problems.
11:08:40
Shinmera
Ah, just what I needed to distract myself from my trainwreck of a talk: license debate
11:09:14
TMA
ebrasca: copyright is broken in general, copyright as applied to software even more so.
11:14:57
theemacsshibe[m]
A friend and I made it based on the Peer Production License, which is an arty license for art people based on CC BY NC SA. Ours has software specific terms too.
11:15:14
TMA
ebrasca: there is no silver bullet. asking for a license recomendation in #fsf and #gnu is like asking an insurance salesman whether you should be insured
11:18:28
theemacsshibe[m]
Here is our license: https://gitlab.com/Theemacsshibe/nettle-lisp/blob/master/LICENSE
11:18:32
TMA
ebrasca: it is difficult because of many reasons, the international aspects of copyright among them
11:20:33
TMA
ebrasca: https://www.reddit.com/r/lisp/comments/7fdm0r/common_lisp_licensing_situation_for_distributing/ http://www.ifosslr.org/ifosslr/article/view/75/146
11:21:04
Shinmera
ebrasca: Sabra did a survey on Quicklisp libraries and evaluated the frequency of licenses. https://sites.google.com/site/sabraonthehill/quicklisp-library-trivia
11:22:30
phoe
mfiano: I remember that there was some kind of switch that did that thing, I just can't find it at the moment
11:26:40
TMA
theemacsshibe[m]: oy, I am reading the first paragraph and I am already lost, because it necessitates to pull in yet another whole branch of law (the contract law)
11:34:05
mfiano
Does the standard have a type definition for "string designator" or should I just define my own?
11:35:05
TMA
theemacsshibe[m]: also the title is "COOPERATIVE SOFTWARE LICENSE" but the text refers to "COPYFARLEFT PUBLIC LICENSE" ; the aforementioned notwithstanding and incomprehensibility irregardless wherefore as ammended forthwith the contents thereof including but not limited to any and all words and phrases (as defined), articles, conventions and covenants is in whole and in parts almost but not quite entirely unlike huh?
11:38:56
TMA
ebrasca: do not use a license you feel you need to have explained by a lawyer in order to understand.
11:44:30
TMA
legal documents are similar to obfuscated code. a comma in a single sentence on page four means that the fourth paragraph on page 13 interact with the second sentence of the first paragraph of page 2 in a manner that is in complete opposition to the state without that comma present
11:48:50
TMA
one does not read legal documents. one studies them. or more exactly, one reverse engineers them
11:51:03
TMA
which is why I hate every single web page with its own terms and conditions. [the same applies to any service provider's terms and their changes - bank, telco, ...]
12:20:20
mfiano
What issues would I have by setting the greek small letter lambda to be a macro character for cl:lambda in the default readtable?
13:21:31
mfiano
ghard: Because it disobeys style conventions by changing the width of a symbol and thus potentially having more columns than preferred.
13:23:06
mfiano
I dislike editor tricks that separate the data's model from its view. Orgmode is another problem with it's indent mode and visual tricks.
14:32:36
Shinmera
Wish I could use freetype in my engine, but unfortunately it pulls in too deep a dependency tree.
14:33:53
Shinmera
I do have a font rendering library that I wrote myself based on stb_truetype, but it has some, uh, things left to be desired
14:42:46
smokeink
I am willing but I don't think I am able to do it, yet. As soon as I'll have some free time to dedicate to clim or to other such lisp projects, I'll do it happily
16:00:45
clintm
Did I just forget how to use parenscript or was there something changed in the past month or so that's up on QL now? (ps:ps (@ a (b) c)) -> "at(a, b(), c);"
19:42:32
jasom
clintm: functions, on the other hand, are translated to js names, which are namespace-free
19:43:56
jasom
so the parenscript form (foo bar baz) will be expanded to foo(bar baz) if the symbol FOO is not bound to a PS macro.
20:02:08
drunk_foxx[m]
Are there any good places to practice using common lisp except books and websites with some usual (mostly stupid) excercises? Like, libraries that may need routine work, which can be handled by a person who has just started Lisp a couple of months ago or something like that? Any active projects to work on?
20:02:58
pmetzger
drunk_foxx[m]: There probably are a bunch of such things, but you may have to learn a bit more about the community to find them.
20:09:29
Shinmera
Adding a test suite for Plump would be good since that's something people actually do use.
20:14:45
pmetzger
I disagree. I think anything people use and plan to use for more than a trivial amount of time needs tests. Otherwise fixing bugs and refactoring code is too dangerous and unpleasant.
20:15:34
pmetzger
Earlier today I merged a bunch of changes from someone else's branch of some code I've been hacking on into mine and pushed out the merge, and the only reason it worked right was there was a test suite I could run to shake out any issues.
20:15:56
pmetzger
Any code that never needs to be changed ever again doesn't need tests. When you find me such code, let me know. :)
20:17:32
drunk_foxx[m]
Even if it is bug free, there may exist plenty of reasons fot changing the code in the future
20:19:16
jackdaniel
on the other hand, even if it has bugs it doesn't necessarily mean they must be fixed