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15:31:56
Shinmera
I suppose they don't exist for most because the framework is just a means to an end (I gotta write tests for this other thing)
15:34:18
Bike
testing a test framework with itself is clearly an undefinability theorem violation :p
15:46:38
republican_devil
can you reduce problems with logic liek prolog does in lisp? thus saving a lot fo work?
15:47:33
republican_devil
I mean if I say z means (this list of 100 things) and y means (this other 100 things) then instead of check ing for 200 things, I can check for 2...
15:48:19
republican_devil
so any question of php vs lisp is yes lisp does fine....and is a much smarter language?
15:55:53
Xach
The questions are always similar. Can lisp scale. is lisp better than <some other language. Can I use Lisp for web apps.
15:56:24
jackdaniel
not knowing him are perks of not using usenet (I'm one of the happy non-users ;)
15:57:22
jackdaniel
btw, nice demo with the presentation (despite the fact that I'm allergic to word "neat")
15:58:03
random-nick
Xach: what's the point? wasting people's time? or does he think that lisp is bad at web and wants to troll by pointing that out?
15:58:42
Xach
random-nick: I don't know. It is not just lisp. I suspect some kind of illness or disorder, actually. That doesn't make it much more pleasant to see.
15:58:50
jackdaniel
Shinmera: I hear it way too often on lisp-related communication channels, it is watered down from any meaning for me now
15:59:35
Shinmera
jackdaniel: Okey. I mean, I don't think I used the word anywhere in the demo except in a sarcastic context on the initial cube slide.
16:01:23
jackdaniel
beach: words are neither good or bad, but I agree that correct use is much less unpleasant
16:02:08
beach
jackdaniel: I know how you feel. I prefer to see "cool" used to refer to temperature, for instance.
16:05:00
parjanya
that rejection of new usages tend to be useful, otherwise language would change way too fast, and in different ways according to place etc
16:12:28
jackdaniel
languages change, but it's not that we have no influence on their evolution. it remotely reminds privacy disputes: they know everything then why do you care? ;-)
16:13:52
beach
I recommend Steven Pinker's "A sense of style". It is one of the few non-prescriptive books about the English language.
16:15:42
beach
Plus, he correctly identifies the "problem" as one of communication. So, he is not a defender of pure descriptive grammar ideas. Essentially, if you upset the intended receiver by using certain constructs, then the message won't get across as easily.
16:19:01
parjanya
beach: I like that book. I struggle a little, though, to guess the reader’s sensibilities. People have invented lots and lots of shibboleths, and different people know different sets of them
16:22:29
parjanya
the most absurd one I remember is that some people avoid saying "como" ‘as’ in Portuguese, because it’s homophone of the verb ‘to eat’ that can be used in a sexual sense, so any comparison might sound obscene to them [rolling eyes]
16:23:51
beach
Heh, you could also read Pinker's book "The stuff of thought". there is an entire chapter in there about unacceptable words in different languages.
16:24:19
beach
The chapter also exists as a separate booklet. Something like "the seven words you can't say on television".
16:25:43
beach
https://www.amazon.fr/Seven-Words-You-Cant-Television-ebook/dp/B002RI9QCG/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1521217524&sr=8-1&keywords=pinker+seven+words+you+can%27t+say+on+television
16:38:34
_death
Shinmera: btw I also noticed some weirdness in the parachute docs.. it has a "See GEQ" and the link to GEQ is broken
17:09:25
Shinmera
Right, I'll see what I can do. Sometimes the references point to things that shouldn't be exported, for use by people that dive deeper, I suppose.
17:17:23
Pierpa
ACTION wonders why the Pinker booklet costs significantly less from amazon.it vs .fr. Hmmm...
17:24:31
Pierpa
Kindle books can be bought only from the Amazon of the country where one is registered
17:26:40
Pierpa
No need to buy the hardware to buy them. There are readers for many hardware platforms
17:37:59
beach
If I could figure out how to install Linux on my Nexus 10, I would often prefer it, because books are much heavier. At least the ones I read.
17:41:41
Pierpa
Why hack them? There are android tablets at the same price. The eink display is terrible for a general purpose device
17:43:31
dlowe
Shinmera: I made some stuff a while ago to put together an epub, but it's not really in library form
17:54:40
doesthiswork
beach: "The Cambridge Encyclopedia of the English Language" is a good non-prescriptive book on english, I only read the first 250 pages though, so I've barely started it.
0:27:28
dmilez_
I really realy wish there was a web-ide for common lisp that lets someone explore and edit the file system
0:31:07
dmilez_
anyone compared cl-lsp (Language Server Protocol) to SLIME? is there no comparison.. or.. ?
1:01:08
onion
dmilez_: there is also https://github.com/joaotavora/sly ... choice and competition is healthy but theres basically at least two of everything and i need to start flipping coins soon
1:02:11
onion
dmilez_: there is also swank-js, for doing "slime" things but on a browser-connected JS repl.
1:29:40
Oladon
Anyone know of a web forum library in Lisp, preferably CL? It's proving difficult to search for.
1:35:27
dmilez_
CL-LSP An implementation of the Language Server Protocol for Common Lisp is how VSCode gets autocompletes
2:00:13
onion
Lumpy Space Princess. also unrelated, thats how i imagine certain personas here in irc when they are all hot headed or high headed. current #otherchannel activity not withstanding
2:15:33
fouric
onion: to be fair, sly is a fork of semi-fork of slime that tracks all of its features, so the experience is very similar
2:17:06
onion
fouric: i figured so, im not sure i can understand the features on the page but i will check out the video dmilez_ linked
2:17:35
fouric
onion: if you're familiar with slime, then i recommend https://joaotavora.github.io/sly/#A-SLY-tour-for-SLIME-users for the lowdown on what sly adds
2:19:11
fouric
Oladon: if you're actually looking for a *forum* proper, then the comp.lang.lisp newsgroup appears reasonably active: https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/comp.lang.lisp/
2:19:37
fouric
onion: np! i hope it serves you well, or, failing that, you at least discover that it is unfit for your needs as quickly as possible
2:23:12
fouric
dmilez_: historically, Emacs+SLIME has been *miles* ahead of other editors (a few commercial products possibly being the exception) in terms of Lisp development integration and features.
2:24:54
Oladon
Indeed, supposedly it was in Arc, but I can't find any mention of the forum code being open-sourced
2:27:23
Oladon
fouric: HN isn't exactly a forum like I have in mind, though I suppose if that's all that's out there I might be able to reuse parts of it.
2:27:44
fouric
Yeah, I was thinking just that...well, unfortunately, *I* can't help you there, sorry.