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13:56:49
_death
Shinmera: I guess a foo-test system that depends on, say, foo/tests/all, and there's a file all.lisp in foo/tests that defpackages foo/tests/all and uses foo/tests/a foo/tests/b etc.. which in turn have corresponding files and packages and contain the define-test forms
14:04:55
_death
suppose I want to check that (foo) results in 2, 3.. do I need to use multiple-value-list? or write a macro that expands to that?
14:05:47
Shinmera
Well, often each value will have a different type, and thus likely a different comparator, so it doesn't make much sense for IS to allow specifying multiple values to compare against.
14:06:06
Shinmera
I could see value in something like (is-values form test-1 value-1 test-2 value-2 ..) though.
14:07:18
Shinmera
For now you'll have to either multiple-value-bind around the test forms (which loses the form in the report), or a multiple-value-list, yeah.
14:19:56
Shinmera
Yeah, the report also won't be too nice. I'm working on a more extensive solution now.
14:47:36
_death
looks a bit weird.. there is a mismatch between the form (which returns 3 values) and the report
14:48:30
_death
for example you'd expect (values 0 "0" 'c) to return 0 as the first value, but the report claims it's "0"
14:50:34
Shinmera
I guess if I just write "the test form .. value x is .." that would be fine if it were 0 indexed.
14:53:27
Shinmera
What would you suggest instead? I'd rather not separately group things into an extra list.
14:54:36
schweers
I need to write some code in order to provide a C interface to some C++ code. Do I have to compile is separately as a shared library and place it somewhere where CFFI can find it (or tell CFFI where to find it), or can I simply tell asdf where to find the code and have asdf and cffi compile and load it?
14:55:40
_death
my ARE operator combines the comparator/value, although it should likely evaluate the latter.. (are ((= 2) (equal "1") (= 0)) (values 0 "0" 'c))
14:58:25
_death
Shinmera: could just use (= 2 equal "1" = 0) .. then it's similar to your is-values except the expectations come first.. but I find the grouping of each pair visually useful
14:58:36
_rumbler31
well, I've been thinking of a few functions to store the shared libs you want to ship as octet vectors, then unpack them and explicitly cffi load them
14:59:19
schweers
anyway, thanks. I guess I’ll just bite the bullet and create and deploy a shared library then.
15:00:09
Shinmera
_death: The rationale behind the ordering in the other operators is that it should feel similar to just (comparison expect value). For multiple values that obviously makes no sense. The idea behind is-values is to make it look more like multiple-value-bind, so I guess (is-values value (comp expected) ..) would be most fitting.
15:00:48
_rumbler31
schweers: I think that's the easier path than trying to statically link some code with any given image
15:02:02
schweers
I’m asking myself what happens if I load a shared library and then dump an image. That shared library is then /not/ embedded in the image, right? Or at least not on every implementation.
15:03:41
Colleen
schweers: Unknown command. Possible matches: 8, about self, set, say, mop, get, logout, grant, block, award,
15:04:01
schweers
I suspected so. please forgive my ignorance, I’ve never done much with shared libraries in any language
15:04:37
Shinmera
They are shared so that they can be used by multiple applications at the same time.
15:10:01
Shinmera
You can also write (is-values .. (= 0 value-0)) if you want. Or anything else as the third argument.
15:23:45
_death
Shinmera: looks good.. instead of ~D~A you can use ~:R to display first/second/... though a bit more verbose
15:31:56
Shinmera
I suppose they don't exist for most because the framework is just a means to an end (I gotta write tests for this other thing)
15:34:18
Bike
testing a test framework with itself is clearly an undefinability theorem violation :p
15:46:38
republican_devil
can you reduce problems with logic liek prolog does in lisp? thus saving a lot fo work?
15:47:33
republican_devil
I mean if I say z means (this list of 100 things) and y means (this other 100 things) then instead of check ing for 200 things, I can check for 2...
15:48:19
republican_devil
so any question of php vs lisp is yes lisp does fine....and is a much smarter language?
15:55:53
Xach
The questions are always similar. Can lisp scale. is lisp better than <some other language. Can I use Lisp for web apps.
15:56:24
jackdaniel
not knowing him are perks of not using usenet (I'm one of the happy non-users ;)
15:57:22
jackdaniel
btw, nice demo with the presentation (despite the fact that I'm allergic to word "neat")
15:58:03
random-nick
Xach: what's the point? wasting people's time? or does he think that lisp is bad at web and wants to troll by pointing that out?
15:58:42
Xach
random-nick: I don't know. It is not just lisp. I suspect some kind of illness or disorder, actually. That doesn't make it much more pleasant to see.
15:58:50
jackdaniel
Shinmera: I hear it way too often on lisp-related communication channels, it is watered down from any meaning for me now
15:59:35
Shinmera
jackdaniel: Okey. I mean, I don't think I used the word anywhere in the demo except in a sarcastic context on the initial cube slide.
16:01:23
jackdaniel
beach: words are neither good or bad, but I agree that correct use is much less unpleasant
16:02:08
beach
jackdaniel: I know how you feel. I prefer to see "cool" used to refer to temperature, for instance.
16:05:00
parjanya
that rejection of new usages tend to be useful, otherwise language would change way too fast, and in different ways according to place etc
16:12:28
jackdaniel
languages change, but it's not that we have no influence on their evolution. it remotely reminds privacy disputes: they know everything then why do you care? ;-)
16:13:52
beach
I recommend Steven Pinker's "A sense of style". It is one of the few non-prescriptive books about the English language.
16:15:42
beach
Plus, he correctly identifies the "problem" as one of communication. So, he is not a defender of pure descriptive grammar ideas. Essentially, if you upset the intended receiver by using certain constructs, then the message won't get across as easily.
16:19:01
parjanya
beach: I like that book. I struggle a little, though, to guess the reader’s sensibilities. People have invented lots and lots of shibboleths, and different people know different sets of them
16:22:29
parjanya
the most absurd one I remember is that some people avoid saying "como" ‘as’ in Portuguese, because it’s homophone of the verb ‘to eat’ that can be used in a sexual sense, so any comparison might sound obscene to them [rolling eyes]
16:23:51
beach
Heh, you could also read Pinker's book "The stuff of thought". there is an entire chapter in there about unacceptable words in different languages.
16:24:19
beach
The chapter also exists as a separate booklet. Something like "the seven words you can't say on television".
16:25:43
beach
https://www.amazon.fr/Seven-Words-You-Cant-Television-ebook/dp/B002RI9QCG/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1521217524&sr=8-1&keywords=pinker+seven+words+you+can%27t+say+on+television
16:38:34
_death
Shinmera: btw I also noticed some weirdness in the parachute docs.. it has a "See GEQ" and the link to GEQ is broken
17:09:25
Shinmera
Right, I'll see what I can do. Sometimes the references point to things that shouldn't be exported, for use by people that dive deeper, I suppose.
17:17:23
Pierpa
ACTION wonders why the Pinker booklet costs significantly less from amazon.it vs .fr. Hmmm...
17:24:31
Pierpa
Kindle books can be bought only from the Amazon of the country where one is registered
17:26:40
Pierpa
No need to buy the hardware to buy them. There are readers for many hardware platforms
17:37:59
beach
If I could figure out how to install Linux on my Nexus 10, I would often prefer it, because books are much heavier. At least the ones I read.
17:41:41
Pierpa
Why hack them? There are android tablets at the same price. The eink display is terrible for a general purpose device
17:43:31
dlowe
Shinmera: I made some stuff a while ago to put together an epub, but it's not really in library form
17:54:40
doesthiswork
beach: "The Cambridge Encyclopedia of the English Language" is a good non-prescriptive book on english, I only read the first 250 pages though, so I've barely started it.
0:27:28
dmilez_
I really realy wish there was a web-ide for common lisp that lets someone explore and edit the file system
0:31:07
dmilez_
anyone compared cl-lsp (Language Server Protocol) to SLIME? is there no comparison.. or.. ?
1:01:08
onion
dmilez_: there is also https://github.com/joaotavora/sly ... choice and competition is healthy but theres basically at least two of everything and i need to start flipping coins soon
1:02:11
onion
dmilez_: there is also swank-js, for doing "slime" things but on a browser-connected JS repl.
1:29:40
Oladon
Anyone know of a web forum library in Lisp, preferably CL? It's proving difficult to search for.
1:35:27
dmilez_
CL-LSP An implementation of the Language Server Protocol for Common Lisp is how VSCode gets autocompletes