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10:35:45
ebzzry
Aside from the computer language benchmarks game, are there are benchmarks between SBCL and GHC?
10:49:18
jackdaniel
I didn't know GHC can compile Lisp code (because I'm sure SBCL can't compile Haskell code :-)
10:51:37
beach
I logged in to EasyChair today, and it seems ELS2018 has not yet been registered, or am I missing something?
10:54:15
p_l
would a drakma replacement that depended on C library be welcome, if the dependency was designed to be factored out later without changes to user applications?
11:02:15
Shinmera
There's two issues I'm aware of: 1) it's slow 2) it doesn't properly handle unicode filenames in multipart requests
11:04:01
Shinmera
Cthulhux: It would need a significant rewrite to the point of practically being a replacement.
11:05:25
Cthulhux
given that HTTP moves rather slowly, there is probably no need for a hyperactive development around that either
11:06:19
p_l
Cthulhux: Yes, HTTP/2 *recently* solidified. And requires *significant* redo because the whole model changed significantly
11:07:39
beach
p_l: Are you saying that a rewrite that depends on a C library would require significantly less work than a rewrite that doesn't?
11:08:37
beach
But it would be possible to design the protocols such that the C library could eventually be replaced?
11:08:59
p_l
I have a bunch of "short coding things" that I'd love to do in CL, but they usually end up differently because there's a lack of necessary libs which are *not* short undertakings, even for the bare minimum of features
11:09:27
p_l
even that it would be easy for Joe Random Hacker later on to swap implementation when they need some custom tweaks
11:13:22
Shinmera
One thing that's still somewhat higher on my todo is bindings for bearssl so that we can finally have an easily shippable SSL implementation that doesn't depend on openssl
11:14:49
Shinmera
I don't know too much about libressl, but bearssl has zero dependencies and no malloc/free calls, and other things about it that are very promising.
11:15:14
p_l
Shinmera: in scope of similar ideas was to replace current cl+ssl with pluggable implementations
11:15:52
p_l
libressl is possibly cleaned up but with arseholes in charge who don't really care about devs outside of OpenBSD
11:16:09
Shinmera
Particularly the no deps thing is very interesting to me since that means I can just ship it easily myself.
11:16:48
p_l
Shinmera: it could be possibly bundled into one C file that could be compiled by ASDF in presence of compiler and easily precompiled for others (like SQLite is)
11:17:57
p_l
ideally, I'd like to have some common libs (some ediware) replaced with options that are "pluggable" in terms of implementation
11:18:47
Shinmera
I'd be fine if the pluggability was simply implemented by offering alternative packages that offer the same interface otherwise, so all you had to do was either replace the :use, or s/r whatever:
11:19:25
p_l
Shinmera: I was thinking that, + maybe a compat package that provides "classic" package names
14:10:11
phoe
cuso4: you might want to ask around #lispgames - they're much closer to the GPU than #lisp
15:46:23
jmercouris
Hey everyone, just made my first blog post on /r/programming : https://www.reddit.com/r/programming/comments/7vfkoe/tabs_suck_use_buffers_next_browser/
15:46:52
jmercouris
I'm thinking about making more technical articles in the future, any feedback/upvotes welcome
15:56:47
jackdaniel
I don't necessarily agree with the statement, but I wouldn't put negative message there
15:57:50
jmercouris
I can see that point of view yeah, to briefly explain my reasoning, I wanted to make it a provocative/eye catching title
15:58:14
jmercouris
As I try out a few more technical articles, like exploratory case study articles, this shouldn't be a problem I don't htink
15:59:18
jmercouris
yeah, it's best to convince the other individual that the idea is theirs for maximum engagement
15:59:49
jmercouris
my goal though was to make it to the top of /r/programming to give it some visibility, so that those who are interested in the project may discover it
16:00:48
jmercouris
I feel like there is a lot of room for growth here, I just need to figure out how to reach those who would be interested, and would benefit from using a productiivty browser
16:01:46
jmercouris
anyways though, all good lessons, I assume you as users represent a good demographic for people on /r/programming, so I will keep thse things in mind
16:55:05
p_l
I was actually thinking of using nghttp2 in HTTP2 path while reusing Drakma code (initially) for HTTP1 path
17:00:53
rme
If you use CCL at all, please fill out my little survey at https://goo.gl/forms/xy3oRIazSIo46iCL2 if you are willing to do so (and thanks if you've already filled it out). I'll be closing the survey soon.
17:11:07
rme
I just want to get an idea of what OS and cpu combinations people use. This is partly because I am wondering how much longer I should support 32-bit x86.
17:11:30
jmercouris
If you want to know how many people are using it, abruptly drop support and see how many emails you get
17:13:17
rme
By "support 32-bit x86" I mean "support in future releases". The current version isn't going to stop working all of a sudden.
17:13:22
jasom
jmercouris: actually at one place I worked we sort of did that. We didn't stop supporting it, but we stopped shipping it, with a note to call us if you want it.
17:15:01
jmercouris
do they literally forge themselves new CPUS? or are they hoarding a stockpile of them do you think?
17:15:28
jasom
I don't know, but we started buying workstations off of ebay so we could run tests...
17:15:29
rme
One survey respondent said that he was still using ccl on a PowerPC Mac running OS X 10.5.7.
17:16:20
jmercouris
there was someone on #lisp a few weeks ago asking about it getting an implementation running on a very old version of OSX
17:16:21
jasom
ACTION booted up his G4 a couple months ago because his wife's christmas card list was in an appleworks DB...
17:17:02
jasom
there is literally no software that can import an appleworks DB, you need to export from appleworks to open it :(
18:07:17
pjb
jasom: yes, if it's a database file, the probability its format being supported is lower than for a word processor file.
18:09:32
pjb
jasom: that said, it's often rather easy to reverse-engineer file formats. I recently did that for a MIDI sysex dump. While it may look puzzling at first, if you let pass a couple of nights over it, you can often find the clue.
18:10:13
pjb
That is, if you use lisp to do it: it's very easy to experiment and try systematically various options.
18:26:03
phoe
You can do a trick, though, and make a new thread, and from that thread, fetch the value of *standard-output* - it should be the console output that you are looking for.
18:29:55
stacksmith
G'day! Is there any portable way to get at lambda-lists of type declarations? like sb-introspect:deftype-lambda-list?
18:32:19
stacksmith
I've been trying to figure out how swank does it, but all that accomplished is making me feel like a moron.
18:35:20
Shinmera
stacksmith: grepping swank sources for deftype-lambda-list only shows sbcl as having it
18:36:05
Shinmera
So either other implementations don't offer that or the Slime people haven't implemented it for them.
18:36:58
Bike
there's certainly no requirement for implementations to save it. for the semantics you only need the function
18:39:01
fourier
Xach: yep i've added a comment now. besides osicat itself fails on clisp and ecl on travis on amaster branch.
18:42:16
stacksmith
Interesting. Is anyone here using slime with anything other than SBCL? Could you check that typing "(declare (type (integer " in REPL does not show the type lambda-list?
18:53:56
phoe
you won't be able to do full verification in general case anyway, because of SATISFIES that is able of arbitrary computation
18:55:17
Bike
stacksmith: you mean you want to look at type declarations and decide if they're valid?
18:55:40
phoe
oh, you don't want to check types, you want to see if a thing is a valid type specifier
18:59:20
stacksmith
I need to detect structural defects with forms, without any semantics. Just that required parameters are there, keywords are not out-of-whack, etc. A lint of sorts.
19:00:00
Bike
i see. i'm not sure if that can be done portably. i don't think ccl even saves the lambda list.
19:02:40
Bike
really, i'd think it would be pretty tricky in general since macro expansions can of course involve arbitrary code execution.
19:03:27
shrdlu68
I'm doing some micro-optimization and wondering - is #'= optimal for comparing bits for equivalence?
19:03:56
stacksmith
Bike: True enough. I don't need an absolute assurance, just elimination of obvious errors.
19:10:18
stacksmith
Is it logical to assume that standard CL type declarations in conforming implementations must have similar-enough lambda-lists? Is there anything wrong with extracting lambda-lists for all standard types and using them with any implementation?
19:12:23
Bike
the standard cl types have defined lambda lists. that's why swank has a database of them that works on all implementations, as aforementioned.