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5:49:16
borei
fiddlerwoaroof_: actually i have question about ML, can you recommend any materials about ML+Lisp to read (entry level)
5:49:16
aeth
fiddlerwoaroof_: The most important part in the GC buzzwords for games is real time, afaik.
5:49:39
fiddlerwoaroof_
aeth: The built-in java GCs are really advanced, because of the JVM's position in the industry
5:49:48
aeth
Games are usually on some strict schedule (or two, if the rendering framerate is separate from the logic one). e.g. 0.01 second ticks or something.
5:51:52
fiddlerwoaroof_
borei: CL isn't the best yet for modern ML, just because we don't have the libraries that python/scala have. However, Gabor Melis managed to do pretty well using his own libraries
5:57:59
aeth
k-hos: Most games wind up using a garbage collected scripting language in addition to a non-garbage collected engine language.
5:59:33
fiddlerwoaroof_
Hmm, it looks like redhat has recently opensourced a low-latency GC: https://wiki.openjdk.java.net/display/shenandoah/Main
6:00:09
k-hos
personally I would prefer no gc and have some kind of ref counting mechanism built into the language
6:03:54
k-hos
it's pauses and inconsistency that make gcs generally bad for games, but there is little point to arguing about a theoretical language anyway
6:04:18
beach
k-hos: There are very good real-time, parallel, concurrent garbage collectors these days.
6:11:09
aeth
jackdaniel: Yes, because I think there are literally dozens of people on IRC who want one.
6:26:42
aeth
It does look like the (16) array is consistently around 2.8 kilocycles compared to the (4 4) being consistently around 3.8 kilocycles. So that is quite a drop in performance, even though I have to use SBCL's cycles to even notice it at all (0.000 seconds)
6:27:20
aeth
I've played with different ways of expressing it, e.g. pulling out all of the array accesses into variables first
6:29:00
aeth
Maybe the next thing I could try is using a loop instead of doing all of the adds/multiplies,
6:38:35
aeth
It looks like the 4x4 matrix is always slower than the fake 4x4 matrix because SBCL can't access items from it as well. It generates an extra MOV for every one or two MOVSS, which adds up a lot in matrix multiplication. Both on retrieving the values and on setting the destination matrix.
12:43:26
drmeister
Is there a way to shut down pretty printing for trace output? Or is this an implementation dependent detail?
12:44:35
Shinmera
Well, setting *print-pretty* is an option unless the implementation changes that itself during tracing.
12:48:23
scymtym
maybe implementations could add something along the lines of SB-EXT:*DEBUG-PRINT-VARIABLE-ALIST* for TRACE
12:48:58
drmeister
Sometimes in clasp trace generates pretty printed output and other times it doesn't.
12:49:27
drmeister
It's pretty much "(setq *print-pretty* <which one doesn't drmeister want right now>)"
13:01:16
drmeister
(blush) Simply (setf *print-pretty* nil) in the slime repl turns pretty printing off for trace
17:39:24
jackdaniel
Devon: advices are supported only by CCL I think (I don't count commercial implementations because I don't use them so don't know)
17:40:16
jackdaniel
s/commercial/locked down/ - corrected myself because foss implementation may be commercial, why not