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8:12:45
throwprans
But from that doc, it just says nothing about what t is? or am i missing something obvious here?
8:16:05
throwprans
"The symbol t is also sometimes used for other purposes as well. For example, as the name of a class, as a designator (e.g., a stream designator) or as a special symbol for some syntactic reason (e.g., in case and typecase to label the otherwise-clause)."
8:16:28
jdz
throwprans: T is for "true", and functions that accept stream designators treat T as *terminal-io*.
8:17:16
beach
Shinmera: I think FORMAT is different in that it doesn't take ordinary stream designators.
8:17:46
throwprans
Shinmera: Yeah, and looking at the FORMAT docs, I don't understand how to read it. -_-
8:19:47
throwprans
beach: That is much better, how do I make sure I land on the "extend" version of docs and not here http://www.lispworks.com/documentation/HyperSpec/Body/f_format.htm?
8:19:50
beach
throwprans: The only way to find out what T might mean, is to read the documentation for the function that you are wondering about.
8:19:58
jdz
That's why I was surprised to read T -> *terminal-io*, and not *standard-output*. Should pay more attention to my cognitive dissonance.
8:20:25
throwprans
I searched the web, I got here http://www.lispworks.com/documentation/HyperSpec/Body/f_format.htm
8:21:29
throwprans
Yeah, now I know that from 22.3 I can go to the f_format doc, still not sure about the other way around
8:21:50
throwprans
I am asking because I might end up the same place again and again for different functions
8:21:55
Shinmera
"For details on how the control-string is interpreted, see Section 22.3 (Formatted Output).
8:23:20
beach
throwprans: The Common Lisp HyperSpec is not meant to be documentation for the application programmer. For that, you are better off reading a book. The Common Lisp HyperSpec is a specification meant for people implementing Common Lisp systems.
8:23:55
Shinmera
Even despite that it is unfortunate that some of the links between pages are not well established
8:24:03
throwprans
But I like to understand how stuff works, so like to jump to the man/reference/whatever page when I can.
8:30:26
Fare
That ASDF bug blows my mind. I have to page back in all the ASDF call graph in this ugly ugly part of ASDF.
8:31:33
Fare
It's about the notion of primary-system not being a matter of name (since there are misnamed secondary systems) but of what asd file you were loaded in.
11:01:46
flip214b
there's an "libapache2-mod-lisp" package, does anybody have experience with it? is that better/faster than using mod_proxy and hunchentoot?
12:33:14
mgsk
What's the "best" / "lisponic" way to do the equivalent of (in python) `for idx, elt in enumerate(list)'?
12:36:20
Shinmera
Which is mostly irrelevant nowadays as the symbols are few and the memory is plenty.
12:45:33
KZiemian
JuanDaugherty: this is one year old, partly outdated manifesto https://github.com/phoe/clus-data/blob/master/paper.pdf
12:55:06
KZiemian
if we don't find more acctive contributors we need at least few months to end prepering new framework (in broad sens of word) to CLUS
13:37:23
francogrex
phoe and continue loading asdf as usual using for example: (asdf:operate 'asdf:load-op :ALEXANDRIA) ?
13:39:58
francogrex
because I use step afterwards. if i load the compiled I won't be able to single step unless....
13:44:40
francogrex
(declaim (optimize (debug 3))) I have that. but still if i only load-op it won't single-step unless load-source-op. however with SB-EXT:RESTRICT-COMPILER-POLICY maybe it will directly on the compiled allow me to single step
13:50:17
oleo
#.(declaim (optimize (safety 3) (debug 3) (space 0) (speed 0) (compilation-speed 0) (inhibit-warnings 3)))
14:27:11
phoe
that's where RESTRICT-COMPILER-POLICY comes in, as it's stronger than individual OPTIMIZE declarations.
14:27:34
phoe
so you restrict it in .sbclrc, recompile everything once just to be sure, and boom, debug 3 everywhere.
14:48:52
beach
KZiemian: Here is another item for CLUS: On the dictionary page for FORMAT, it doesn't say what stream is designated when T is given. It would be good to mention that.
15:47:17
flip214
Xach: in https://www.xach.com/naggum/articles/3179815377988891@naggum.net.html, I guess that the
15:48:12
flip214
I've seen a few more similar HTML "injections", but a few of them matched the content or tone so I didn't wonder that much
15:50:35
flip214
(as #:Erik is famous for not loving Perl, I can't resist the guess that this is some Perl-RE-blunder? ;)
15:56:10
Xach
That won't be fixed, sorry. That happens to a small number of articles with ambiguous date fields.
15:57:20
flip214
the number is not that small... from memory, I'd guess I've seen some 30 or 40 mixed up posts, and I'm in Oct 2000 right now... but never mind, I can manage.
16:39:04
sigjuice
why (funcall (intern "INSTALL-REPL" :linedit)))) instead of simply (linedit:install-repl) ?
16:42:03
Bike
probably because that code is read before the linedit package is defined, e.g. in an asd file.
16:43:15
Bike
so if it was just (linedit:install-repl) sbcl would complain that there is no linedit package
16:47:59
sigjuice
the cliki page has (require :linedit) before (funcall (intern "INSTALL-REPL" :linedit) :wrap-current t)
16:49:00
phoe
as long as you don't do stuff like (progn (require :linedit) (linedit:install-repl)) because that will crash
16:49:43
minion
jmercouris, memo from jasom: https://github.com/crategus/cl-cffi-gtk/pull/56 <-- this fixes the ccl issue; I'll post my synchronous gtk solution later tonight
16:50:21
jasom
jmercouris: you were right, as a point of fact, that the ccl crash when not waiting was caused by an upstream bug
16:52:01
jmercouris
jasom: Yeah, I had a strong feeling because at that point I was doing nothing non-standard with the code
16:52:56
jmercouris
I wasn't sure how much was due to my VM setup, SSH X Forwarding, some other config etc
16:53:44
jmercouris
jasom: I'm thinking of maybe using Fereda's version since he accepts PRS/ is updating it, what do you think?
17:03:11
phoe
simplifying things, there's three times: read-time, compilation-time, execution time. There are some other times as well, but let's skip them for now.
17:03:25
phoe
during read-time, Lisp reads your data from strings or streams and turns them into objects.
17:04:10
phoe
then it reads "linedit:install-repl", which means, find me a symbol named "INSTALL-REPL" in package named "LINEDIT".
17:04:51
phoe
It doesn't matter that you had (require :linedit) before. It was only read, but not evaluated.
17:05:31
phoe
when you split your input into (require :linedit) (linedit:install-repl), Lisp first reads the first form, compiles it, evaluates it.
17:05:56
phoe
Then reads the second form - successfully this time, because the first form created the LINEDIT package and all the symbols in it - compiles it, evaluates it. No error.
17:06:41
Xach
mfiano: I don't have cmucl handy at the moment. but in my experience most software is not tested with cmucl and problems can sneak in.
17:09:04
mfiano
Xach: I really haven't tried...this is a remote log from TravisCI that doesn't even get to the loading part.
17:15:25
jmercouris
interesting, so use does get executed it seems, unless I don't understand the docs
17:16:23
phoe
(defpackage foo (:use (concatenate 'string "COMMON-" "LISP"))) ;=> error, (CONCATENATE 'STRING "COMMON-" "LISP") does not designate a package
17:16:48
phoe
so you need to put package designators there, not something that evaluates to package designators.
17:18:35
jmercouris
if you have a defpackage, and you :use something, how does it know what symbols exist from that given :use?
17:20:21
Bike
use is just a list of packages, though. packages have a use-list. when you try to find a symbol in a package, it'll check the use list if it has to, so whatever symbols the used packages define are available, it's not set in stone at defpackage time or anything.
17:22:35
Shinmera
defpackage essentially just expands into an eval-when with all clauses and the respective package operations like export, import, use-package, etc.
17:24:12
jmercouris
I've noticed it doesn't complain about symbols not defined if I :use them in a package
17:24:38
Xach
jmercouris: that's because it's just using the symbols for the strings that are their names.
17:25:10
Xach
FOO is not a variable reference because it's not evaluated normally. defpackage is a macro.
17:26:33
Xach
i wrote a simplified clone of the package system to understand it better and i am happy to answer questions!
17:30:29
dmiles
oh good .. ok so i have this lisp impl i created.. and when i am at startup i have a flag that lets me intern and export new symbols like sys:%foo wi5thout giving an error that %foo does not exist in system .. in cases %foo did exist I export it if the initial bootstrap code used : instead of :: .. al this was of my own design .. but is there some defparameter or some other variable that i could
17:32:50
Bike
you can intern symbols whenever, dmiles. or do you mean that you want something like package locks, so that the user can't intern/etc symbols in certain system packages?
17:33:49
dmiles
the sys::%foo i support fine.. it interns .. but i wanted a way that the user would already know how to export as well as intern
17:35:02
dmiles
https://github.com/TeamSPoon/wam_common_lisp/blob/master/prolog/wam_cl/prologfns.pl#L75 <- here is sone intenral code where i have symbols getting exported
17:37:19
Bike
Which relates to how the reader treats case in symbols, something that intern and find-symbol are completely independent of?
17:38:19
dmiles
so i was more asking if anohter impl uses the same hack i do and what they did to support
17:38:55
Bike
I'm not sure what you're trying to do. Do you want the reader to see a symbol, intern, and export it?
17:39:00
dmiles
correct.. other then the readtable actualyl intially deciding what the string will look like
17:39:21
Bike
Yes the readtable controls how the READER gets a string that is passed to intern. Intern doesn't do any case conversions or anything.
17:40:12
dmiles
yes i'd like it so the user can tell the reader to see a symbol, intern, and export it
17:41:05
Bike
Okay. I don't think anybody does that. Why can't you just specify the package definition with all the exported symbols earlier?
17:43:22
dmiles
but then i was thinking it be nice to not depend on packagfe locks to decide when i ignore that flag
17:43:57
dmiles
thats what i meant " <dmiles> right the interner would be independant of technically"
17:44:39
Bike
This *export-symbols* flag is the one that tells the reader to export symbols sometimes, right? I'm saying you should not have such a flag and the reader should not export symbols.
17:47:22
dmiles
eveytime i make a defparameter like *export-symbols* i have to write docs on it.. i am hoping someone lese did this as well and i could use their docs
17:48:44
Bike
So here's what I"m saying. Don't have any flag like that. If you want a symbol to be exported, just export it, like call the cl:export function on it, or if you have defpackage specify it in :export.
17:49:15
dmiles
so you are saying the better elegant design would be to yave it set up in defpackage .. right on
18:14:21
Bookimp175
▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄ A BUSY MEETING IS GOING ON NOW IN #/JOIN ITS A JOINT MEETING WITH THE DISCUSSION OF RE-ENSLAVEMENT OF NIGGERS..MESSAGE CHRONO OR VAP0R FOR DETAILSmtbpk: varjag smurfrobot M ▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄
18:14:25
Bookimp175
▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄ A BUSY MEETING IS GOING ON NOW IN #/JOIN ITS A JOINT MEETING WITH THE DISCUSSION OF RE-ENSLAVEMENT OF NIGGERS..MESSAGE CHRONO OR VAP0R FOR DETAILSbplxkfh: spoken-tales knobo2 jmercouris ▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄
18:14:30
Bookimp175
▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄ A BUSY MEETING IS GOING ON NOW IN #/JOIN ITS A JOINT MEETING WITH THE DISCUSSION OF RE-ENSLAVEMENT OF NIGGERS..MESSAGE CHRONO OR VAP0R FOR DETAILSpnyhh: varjag Khisanth EvW ▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄
18:14:36
Bookimp175
▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄ A BUSY MEETING IS GOING ON NOW IN #/JOIN ITS A JOINT MEETING WITH THE DISCUSSION OF RE-ENSLAVEMENT OF NIGGERS..MESSAGE CHRONO OR VAP0R FOR DETAILShgwojzwsj: fluke` Khisanth varjag ▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄
18:14:40
Bookimp175
▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄ A BUSY MEETING IS GOING ON NOW IN #/JOIN ITS A JOINT MEETING WITH THE DISCUSSION OF RE-ENSLAVEMENT OF NIGGERS..MESSAGE CHRONO OR VAP0R FOR DETAILSbfpqzei: jmercouris spoken-tales smurfrobot ▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄
18:14:46
Bookimp175
▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄ A BUSY MEETING IS GOING ON NOW IN #/JOIN ITS A JOINT MEETING WITH THE DISCUSSION OF RE-ENSLAVEMENT OF NIGGERS..MESSAGE CHRONO OR VAP0R FOR DETAILShgfcdel: smurfrobot damke_ ym ▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄
18:14:50
Bookimp175
▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄ A BUSY MEETING IS GOING ON NOW IN #/JOIN ITS A JOINT MEETING WITH THE DISCUSSION OF RE-ENSLAVEMENT OF NIGGERS..MESSAGE CHRONO OR VAP0R FOR DETAILSxnpunnwys: M varjag fluke` ▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄
18:14:56
Bookimp175
▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄ A BUSY MEETING IS GOING ON NOW IN #/JOIN ITS A JOINT MEETING WITH THE DISCUSSION OF RE-ENSLAVEMENT OF NIGGERS..MESSAGE CHRONO OR VAP0R FOR DETAILSlccsywl: varjag knobo2 smurfrobot ▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄
18:15:01
Bookimp175
▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄ A BUSY MEETING IS GOING ON NOW IN #/JOIN ITS A JOINT MEETING WITH THE DISCUSSION OF RE-ENSLAVEMENT OF NIGGERS..MESSAGE CHRONO OR VAP0R FOR DETAILSlaezhs: ym knobo2 EvW ▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄
18:15:05
Bookimp175
▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄ A BUSY MEETING IS GOING ON NOW IN #/JOIN ITS A JOINT MEETING WITH THE DISCUSSION OF RE-ENSLAVEMENT OF NIGGERS..MESSAGE CHRONO OR VAP0R FOR DETAILSnkmusqkan: jmercouris varjag EvW ▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄
18:15:10
Bookimp175
▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄ A BUSY MEETING IS GOING ON NOW IN #/JOIN ITS A JOINT MEETING WITH THE DISCUSSION OF RE-ENSLAVEMENT OF NIGGERS..MESSAGE CHRONO OR VAP0R FOR DETAILSkkmeadkan: varjag ym jmercouris ▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄
18:15:15
Bookimp175
▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄ A BUSY MEETING IS GOING ON NOW IN #/JOIN ITS A JOINT MEETING WITH THE DISCUSSION OF RE-ENSLAVEMENT OF NIGGERS..MESSAGE CHRONO OR VAP0R FOR DETAILSatzvyau: ym Khisanth knobo2 ▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄
18:30:17
jmercouris
He would have the knowledge and the desire to do something like that, maybe it is him
18:39:42
jmercouris
DeadTrickster: Did you get a chance to try the new GTK version? There's a couple features missing yet, like parenscript execution, and callback for "onload" of a webview, but is "kind-of" working
18:47:01
knobo
I was thinking of what was mentioned here: http://blog.quicklisp.org/2017/12/december-2017-quicklisp-dist-update-now.html
18:52:03
dmiles
for my auto-export thing (which i only use for the cold system right) now i swistched over the a primordial **BOOT-STATE**.. but of course the symbol (like before) have to trigger a PACKAGE-ERROR like "Symbol "XXXX" not found in the YYYY package"
19:01:14
jmercouris
DeadTrickster: Yeah, it works, I changed a bunch of things to make it work per jasoms instruction
19:05:19
jmercouris
I see, so you know how to make a standalone executable or one that uses shared libraries?
19:06:21
jmercouris
If you don't want to do it, that's of course no problem, I am just asking if you can since I'm a BSD/MacOS user
19:06:55
jmercouris
So, I'm not exactly 7 days like I said in the issue on github, but pretty close :D
19:26:53
sigjuice
jmercouris the 'Memory pressure relief' messages are coming from here. https://anonscm.debian.org/git/pkg-webkit/webkit.git/tree/Source/WTF/wtf/MemoryPressureHandler.cpp?h=webkitgtk-2.18#n280
19:31:50
jmercouris
sigjuice: It doesn't look like anything unusual I guess, do you know under which condition this log is fired off?
19:33:03
jmercouris
It's possible that it's just a standard debug message do to the way the process is launched
19:33:28
jmercouris
I'll take a look later into cl-webkit and see how the webview is actually instantiated
19:39:08
sigjuice
I guess that is how the gtk window is created. (make-instance 'gtk:gtk-window ... :default-width 250)