freenode/#lisp - IRC Chatlog
Search
5:32:47
jmercouris
jasom: just to confirm, you are referring to this: https://github.com/lmj/lparallel yeah?
5:39:59
jmercouris
jasom: It was being used also for some objc- %null-ptr% things in cocoa/utility.lisp
5:56:03
jasom
hmm libwebkit2 is listed twice on list-foreign-libraries I wonder if that's causing issues
6:08:16
jasom
ccl *is* slower which is why it was failing. Also there is a bug upstream in cl-cffi-gtk
6:18:05
jasom
minion: memo for jmercouris: https://github.com/crategus/cl-cffi-gtk/pull/56 <-- this fixes the ccl issue; I'll post my synchronous gtk solution later tonight
8:12:45
throwprans
But from that doc, it just says nothing about what t is? or am i missing something obvious here?
8:16:05
throwprans
"The symbol t is also sometimes used for other purposes as well. For example, as the name of a class, as a designator (e.g., a stream designator) or as a special symbol for some syntactic reason (e.g., in case and typecase to label the otherwise-clause)."
8:16:28
jdz
throwprans: T is for "true", and functions that accept stream designators treat T as *terminal-io*.
8:17:16
beach
Shinmera: I think FORMAT is different in that it doesn't take ordinary stream designators.
8:17:46
throwprans
Shinmera: Yeah, and looking at the FORMAT docs, I don't understand how to read it. -_-
8:19:47
throwprans
beach: That is much better, how do I make sure I land on the "extend" version of docs and not here http://www.lispworks.com/documentation/HyperSpec/Body/f_format.htm?
8:19:50
beach
throwprans: The only way to find out what T might mean, is to read the documentation for the function that you are wondering about.
8:19:58
jdz
That's why I was surprised to read T -> *terminal-io*, and not *standard-output*. Should pay more attention to my cognitive dissonance.
8:20:25
throwprans
I searched the web, I got here http://www.lispworks.com/documentation/HyperSpec/Body/f_format.htm
8:21:29
throwprans
Yeah, now I know that from 22.3 I can go to the f_format doc, still not sure about the other way around
8:21:50
throwprans
I am asking because I might end up the same place again and again for different functions
8:21:55
Shinmera
"For details on how the control-string is interpreted, see Section 22.3 (Formatted Output).
8:23:20
beach
throwprans: The Common Lisp HyperSpec is not meant to be documentation for the application programmer. For that, you are better off reading a book. The Common Lisp HyperSpec is a specification meant for people implementing Common Lisp systems.
8:23:55
Shinmera
Even despite that it is unfortunate that some of the links between pages are not well established
8:24:03
throwprans
But I like to understand how stuff works, so like to jump to the man/reference/whatever page when I can.
8:30:26
Fare
That ASDF bug blows my mind. I have to page back in all the ASDF call graph in this ugly ugly part of ASDF.
8:31:33
Fare
It's about the notion of primary-system not being a matter of name (since there are misnamed secondary systems) but of what asd file you were loaded in.
11:01:46
flip214b
there's an "libapache2-mod-lisp" package, does anybody have experience with it? is that better/faster than using mod_proxy and hunchentoot?
12:33:14
mgsk
What's the "best" / "lisponic" way to do the equivalent of (in python) `for idx, elt in enumerate(list)'?
12:36:20
Shinmera
Which is mostly irrelevant nowadays as the symbols are few and the memory is plenty.
12:45:33
KZiemian
JuanDaugherty: this is one year old, partly outdated manifesto https://github.com/phoe/clus-data/blob/master/paper.pdf
12:55:06
KZiemian
if we don't find more acctive contributors we need at least few months to end prepering new framework (in broad sens of word) to CLUS
13:37:23
francogrex
phoe and continue loading asdf as usual using for example: (asdf:operate 'asdf:load-op :ALEXANDRIA) ?
13:39:58
francogrex
because I use step afterwards. if i load the compiled I won't be able to single step unless....
13:44:40
francogrex
(declaim (optimize (debug 3))) I have that. but still if i only load-op it won't single-step unless load-source-op. however with SB-EXT:RESTRICT-COMPILER-POLICY maybe it will directly on the compiled allow me to single step
13:50:17
oleo
#.(declaim (optimize (safety 3) (debug 3) (space 0) (speed 0) (compilation-speed 0) (inhibit-warnings 3)))
14:27:11
phoe
that's where RESTRICT-COMPILER-POLICY comes in, as it's stronger than individual OPTIMIZE declarations.
14:27:34
phoe
so you restrict it in .sbclrc, recompile everything once just to be sure, and boom, debug 3 everywhere.
14:48:52
beach
KZiemian: Here is another item for CLUS: On the dictionary page for FORMAT, it doesn't say what stream is designated when T is given. It would be good to mention that.
15:47:17
flip214
Xach: in https://www.xach.com/naggum/articles/3179815377988891@naggum.net.html, I guess that the
15:48:12
flip214
I've seen a few more similar HTML "injections", but a few of them matched the content or tone so I didn't wonder that much
15:50:35
flip214
(as #:Erik is famous for not loving Perl, I can't resist the guess that this is some Perl-RE-blunder? ;)
15:56:10
Xach
That won't be fixed, sorry. That happens to a small number of articles with ambiguous date fields.
15:57:20
flip214
the number is not that small... from memory, I'd guess I've seen some 30 or 40 mixed up posts, and I'm in Oct 2000 right now... but never mind, I can manage.
16:39:04
sigjuice
why (funcall (intern "INSTALL-REPL" :linedit)))) instead of simply (linedit:install-repl) ?
16:42:03
Bike
probably because that code is read before the linedit package is defined, e.g. in an asd file.
16:43:15
Bike
so if it was just (linedit:install-repl) sbcl would complain that there is no linedit package
16:47:59
sigjuice
the cliki page has (require :linedit) before (funcall (intern "INSTALL-REPL" :linedit) :wrap-current t)
16:49:00
phoe
as long as you don't do stuff like (progn (require :linedit) (linedit:install-repl)) because that will crash
16:49:43
minion
jmercouris, memo from jasom: https://github.com/crategus/cl-cffi-gtk/pull/56 <-- this fixes the ccl issue; I'll post my synchronous gtk solution later tonight
16:50:21
jasom
jmercouris: you were right, as a point of fact, that the ccl crash when not waiting was caused by an upstream bug
16:52:01
jmercouris
jasom: Yeah, I had a strong feeling because at that point I was doing nothing non-standard with the code
16:52:56
jmercouris
I wasn't sure how much was due to my VM setup, SSH X Forwarding, some other config etc
16:53:44
jmercouris
jasom: I'm thinking of maybe using Fereda's version since he accepts PRS/ is updating it, what do you think?
17:03:11
phoe
simplifying things, there's three times: read-time, compilation-time, execution time. There are some other times as well, but let's skip them for now.
17:03:25
phoe
during read-time, Lisp reads your data from strings or streams and turns them into objects.
17:04:10
phoe
then it reads "linedit:install-repl", which means, find me a symbol named "INSTALL-REPL" in package named "LINEDIT".
17:04:51
phoe
It doesn't matter that you had (require :linedit) before. It was only read, but not evaluated.
17:05:31
phoe
when you split your input into (require :linedit) (linedit:install-repl), Lisp first reads the first form, compiles it, evaluates it.
17:05:56
phoe
Then reads the second form - successfully this time, because the first form created the LINEDIT package and all the symbols in it - compiles it, evaluates it. No error.
17:06:41
Xach
mfiano: I don't have cmucl handy at the moment. but in my experience most software is not tested with cmucl and problems can sneak in.
17:09:04
mfiano
Xach: I really haven't tried...this is a remote log from TravisCI that doesn't even get to the loading part.
17:15:25
jmercouris
interesting, so use does get executed it seems, unless I don't understand the docs
17:16:23
phoe
(defpackage foo (:use (concatenate 'string "COMMON-" "LISP"))) ;=> error, (CONCATENATE 'STRING "COMMON-" "LISP") does not designate a package
17:16:48
phoe
so you need to put package designators there, not something that evaluates to package designators.
17:18:35
jmercouris
if you have a defpackage, and you :use something, how does it know what symbols exist from that given :use?
17:20:21
Bike
use is just a list of packages, though. packages have a use-list. when you try to find a symbol in a package, it'll check the use list if it has to, so whatever symbols the used packages define are available, it's not set in stone at defpackage time or anything.
17:22:35
Shinmera
defpackage essentially just expands into an eval-when with all clauses and the respective package operations like export, import, use-package, etc.
17:24:12
jmercouris
I've noticed it doesn't complain about symbols not defined if I :use them in a package
17:24:38
Xach
jmercouris: that's because it's just using the symbols for the strings that are their names.
17:25:10
Xach
FOO is not a variable reference because it's not evaluated normally. defpackage is a macro.
17:26:33
Xach
i wrote a simplified clone of the package system to understand it better and i am happy to answer questions!
17:30:29
dmiles
oh good .. ok so i have this lisp impl i created.. and when i am at startup i have a flag that lets me intern and export new symbols like sys:%foo wi5thout giving an error that %foo does not exist in system .. in cases %foo did exist I export it if the initial bootstrap code used : instead of :: .. al this was of my own design .. but is there some defparameter or some other variable that i could