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12:53:51
dim
jmercouris: a macro can choose to evaluate its argument while expanding or only refer to the argument in its expansion, so that the args are evaluated at run-time, later, as Bike is showing
12:54:31
jmercouris
If the function was capable of discerning the time, and executing based on the time, I would agree with "when"
12:55:18
Shinmera
jmercouris: The fuck are you on about. A macro can cause something to be evaluated at compile-time, load-time, or run-time. Those are different times, both in idea and actual real-world clock.
12:55:57
dim
read the spec before defining your own glossary and pretending we're not helpful in direspecting your choices of terms
12:57:16
jmercouris
For something to know "when" something happens, in the sense that you were using it, you were definitely not referring to the spec
12:57:42
dim
ok, but somehow you can't see that there's a link between the choice of the word “when”, the eval-when operator, and the evaluation of macro arguments?
12:58:00
jmercouris
Oh, I can see the link, I'm just pointing out that you are explicitly wrong in your statement
12:58:13
dim
either I'm all wrong or I'm done chatting with you jmercouris, you seem to want to be right rather than learn from our imperfect answers to your questions
12:58:39
jmercouris
You aren't "all" wrong, but you can't seem to be a little bit wrong about anything
12:58:52
jmercouris
It was a socratic question, so that maybe you'd take the opportunity to say "oh, you're right, I actually meant x"
12:59:49
jmercouris
I readily admit to being wrong all the time, please refer to my history in this channel
13:01:33
Shinmera
Referring to compile/load/run-times as when things are evaluated is completely common parlance.
13:04:41
scymtym
and then there is evaluation order of macro arguments which describes the order in which argument forms are evaluated within a given time (such as compile/load/run-time)
13:10:42
jmercouris
Shinmera: I'll say one last thing on the matter, when is a condition, just because it has the name "when" does not making relate to time, it is just a different way of writing IF, in computer science this is an extremely important distinction
13:12:40
jmercouris
He used the phrase "if and when" which commonly refers to a possibilty, and time, he wasn't using it in the sense of "when" as a lisp branch, that's just him backpedaling so he doesn't have to admit mistake
13:13:19
Shinmera
Or it's a conjunction of literally whether you want to evaluate at all, and specifically at which point in time you want to evaluate.
13:17:23
jmercouris
You don't choose at which point in time you evaluate, you choose during which process you evaluate, in other words, during which branch
13:19:55
Shinmera
If I were to further engage your line of thinking, I would also say there's different measures of time that can be established, one of which is the segregation of a timeline into four distinct phases of read, compile, load, evaluate. Using this notion of time, the application of "when" is completely accurate.
13:20:45
jmercouris
Actually no, it would be at "which" time, aka which time line, one wouldn't say "at when timeline"
15:34:35
pjb
oleo: swank resets *random-state*, since it forks a new thread for each evaluation. Try it in the REPL.
15:42:45
flip214
Hrmpf. wrote (DEFUN ... (... &KEYS foo)) once again, and it actually worked with :foo :bar ...
16:19:16
mfiano
What is the correct way to read a file of multiple top-level s-expression forms (a dsl I want to parse)? Normally I only have to read a single form, and READ works, but with multiple top-level forms, it only returns the first one.
16:20:29
mfiano
How would I loop over arbitrary number of them? I'm moreso looking for the idiomatic way to handle all this. I'm sure I could hack something up less than ideal, but this is new territory for me so thought I'd ask for pointers.
16:23:44
pjb
mfiano: (com.informatimago.common-lisp.cesarum.file:sexp-list-file-contents "file.sexps")
16:25:03
pjb
Note: it's an accessor, so you can update the file with: (setf (com.informatimago.common-lisp.cesarum.file:sexp-list-file-contents "file.sexps") '((define-thing x) (define-stuff z)))
17:03:30
pjb
Well, no, I'm wrong. It's ok, it just allocates a little more, hidden by the fill pointer. I need a rest.
17:04:33
mfiano
Is there a way to write a lambda list with destructuring-bind that binds all the BUTLAST forms to a variable, and the LAST form to another variable?
17:08:13
dmiles
gads, since sbcl was 9x faster at fibonacci than YAP-Prolog .. i figured i'd have a go at trying out some prolog-in-lisps ... if figured i'd see if sbcl running one the the prologs would be faster than YAP, however the bad news is all of the prolog-in-lisp run out of memory at fib(18,_) and above :(
17:18:14
oleo
pjb: right, some unicode won't get rendered at least in the listener, not in the repl tho
17:19:23
dmiles
onme would think i am doing something wrong ifg it wasnt for the fact that fib(17,_) returned the correct answers :P
17:22:22
dmiles
not sure why AllgroCL doesnt spend a month making a 3 stack version of prolog so it doesnt do that
17:51:11
mrottenkolber
I have trouble loading CLX on CCL, I get: Unbound variable: XLIB::+RR-CONFIG-STATUS+
17:59:28
mrottenkolber
jackdaniel: as a side note, the work you are doing on McCLIM looks really promising!!
18:05:14
jackdaniel
check out clx repository for a fix. If you want to run McCLIM with CCL I would wait a few days – something is not right and it may not work for you
18:51:20
sjl_
dmiles: I mean, it has a few tests. it's not really done, and I burned out on it before I finished. I should get back to it some time
22:21:05
borodust
Xach: latest quicklisp dist doesnt seem to load a couple of libs after #'ql:update-all-dists
22:27:31
borodust
this was reported to me by user, cant investigate it further atm (afk). Ill recheck tomorrow
22:28:00
Xach
borodust: i hope to have another release tomorrow, at any rate, but i don't know if it will fix that issue.