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16:42:44
beach
Answer: "A working program that is not maintainable is worthless because it can't be fixed, but a non-working program that is maintainable can easily be fixed to work."
16:42:55
madnificent
though I can imagine it is hard to convince them though. we got a course at some point indicating changes to a project. that helped make clear why good design matters. it is a lengthy lesson.
16:43:21
mseddon
rule 1 of code entropy: your program is breaking, and gaining bugs, because the environment it runs in is changing. You don't have to do anything, it is already melting.
16:45:24
_death
I'm a cowboy programmer / Shooting from the hip / A bullet named cadaddr / That's three levels deep
18:14:31
borodust
Xach: i'm looking into bodge-blobs-support issue but doesn't see anything wrong with the repo so far (`stable` is the tag)
18:15:50
borodust
Xach: can you paste git commands somewhere (maybe command log?), i'll try to reproduce
18:54:25
Xach
borodust: aha, it is a false alarm - the system is trying to archive bodge-glad first, and i have not updated it from branched to tagged.
20:26:40
phoe
https://www.reddit.com/r/lisp/comments/k1tnl/where_does_the_special_form_labels_come_from/
20:47:44
alanz
phoe, is that related to https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anaphoric_macro#Defining_anaphoric_macros (which I happened to come across today)
20:49:41
alanz
just happen to be doing something vaguely similar, in refering to a self-referential function. The second example. Many ways to skin a cat, I suppose
22:16:41
borodust
Xach: that's the whole _I_ don't want to go onto.. what happend? something was depending on those? examples, o guess
22:23:42
phoe
we are quicklisp. the cl-bodge dist will be assimilated. resistance is futile, and it conses a lot anyway.
22:28:44
phoe
but, I guess, if you make a git repository with a *ton* of submodules and slap a trivial-bodge.asd on top...
22:29:00
aeth
phoe: ASDF works on systems, QL works on projects, and they're not the same... annoying projects like CL-SDL2 that use systems like SDL2 break that assumption. (And even if that assumption held, there are lots of secondary systems)
22:31:20
aeth
The goal of trivial-bodge would be to load every bodge project, but not necessarily every bodge system (since e.g. some might just be for tests... although at the moment every bodge-* project in Quicklisp has one system, of the same name)
22:32:35
aeth
OK, good, that can be what makes trivial-bodge so trivial, then. It can just depend on cl-bodge
22:34:27
aeth
borodust: libecl.so is just another .so file, so you might as well make bodge-trivial-cl
23:10:47
borodust
i know i know, i should have abandoned all those, ripped them out of quicklisp body, but.. i couldn't
2:43:43
drmeister
I got on my hobby horse about the wonders of Common Lisp and the relative efficiency of languages on Hacker News... https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=24642134#24644983
2:44:49
drmeister
“For what do we live, but to make sport for our neighbors, and laugh at them in our turn?” - Jane Austen
2:56:38
bhartrihari
In Table 2 of he linked article, it's interesting that they put Rust in Object Oriented paradigm, but not Lisp.
3:00:05
no-defun-allowed
Lisp is in the "VM" category of implementations, which is utter bullshit as well.
3:01:22
no-defun-allowed
I couldn't find what implementations were used for any of the tests, but maybe I'm not looking hard enough.
3:05:01
no-defun-allowed
The implementation list is at the bottom of https://sites.google.com/view/energy-efficiency-languages/setup.
3:05:33
no-defun-allowed
bhartrihari: Sure, but AFAICT the authors of that paper did their own experiments with their own software.
3:08:55
kreyren
meaning i have a hello world file with .cl extension that i want to invoke through ecl
3:13:10
no-defun-allowed
Try (print "Hello") -- LOAD won't print the results of what it evaluates. Also what's cargo-make?
3:13:38
borei
working on the logging library, file logging pretty much completed, was trying to log to local syslog, but found that i can't write to "/dev/log" socket.
3:14:11
drmeister
kreyren: My instructions assumed that you had already started ecl using: ecl and you have the > prompt.
3:17:29
kreyren
using the `(print "Hello")` works, but i need ecl to run it and exit true unless specified otherwise where using `ecl --load file` starts an interactive session
3:17:48
no-defun-allowed
borei: /dev/log is a Unix socket and not a file. I can't remember if there are libraries for working with Unix sockets though.
3:19:29
no-defun-allowed
kreyren: You can add (sys:quit) at the end of the file to make ECL quit after evaluating the rest.
3:20:44
kreyren
which is unwanted as i want to use it as a part of a backend to compile the software cross-platform
3:23:29
no-defun-allowed
Well, do you want the quotes as well? If not, (write-line "...") will just write a line.
4:27:05
kreyren
How can i execute `(write-line "...")` through ecl subshell? where the usage is http://ix.io/2zl4 trying to adapt the code base to work on as many turing complete systems as possible
4:29:10
akoana
borei: example: (sb-posix:syslog 1 "test message ~d from sbcl" 42) ;; 1 is the priority
4:29:20
no-defun-allowed
Why are you using ECL...to script...um...something to do with Makefiles and Rust?
4:29:50
no-defun-allowed
(And, what makes you think it's more portable than CPython or the POSIX shell?)
4:32:53
kreyren
no-defun-allowed, because i want to use rust to mess with it's embedding project for my weird implementation of bedrock linux-inspired project in something more production ready where the Makefile and cargo-make are using shell for scripting of repository management
4:33:26
no-defun-allowed
I thought in Rust they used one too many commas to delimit things, but here you are with none.
4:33:37
kreyren
no-defun-allowed, > or the POSIX shell? < -- Because systems from 1971 usually only have bourne shell (bsh) without a good way to get POSIX sh
4:35:52
no-defun-allowed
It seems very, very unlikely that you are going to run Common Lisp (via ECL) or Rust code on systems from 1971.
4:36:37
kreyren
from my point of view i don't see why ECL is a problem there and Rust is the challenging part as it's embedding could use some work
4:38:20
no-defun-allowed
ECL uses C99, which probably wouldn't have any compilers targeting or running on a 70s machine. (Well, someone with too much free time probably did write one, but I haven't heard of it.)