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11:32:42
jcowan
No Scheme standard was ever defined in terms of surface syntax; I've read them all and can say that definitively.
11:33:24
jcowan
AFAIK the only standard that ever was defined that way was DIN Lisp 1.2 (neither Scheme nor CL), and it was one of the points Henry Baker raised in his critique (which is still very interesting).
11:34:21
jcowan
In addition, Guile is as multi-paradigm as CL, if by that you mean it has good support for OO.
11:40:00
heisig
jcowan: You mean GOOPS? It is far from being as useful, fast, and extensible as CLOS.
11:41:12
jcowan
Less extensible, certainly. Useful is a matter of what you want to use it for, and what you expect. Fast, well, I'm sure it's possibly to implement CLOS to run slowly, even in these Latter Days of the Law.
11:44:18
heisig
One can even slow down existing implementations by orders of magnitude, just by adding a single innocent method at the wrong place :)
12:01:45
francogrex
Hi I want to compile a C code (or assembly code) but don't want to install gcc or any other C compiler. is there a lib in CL that lets me compile to an object file? it's won't be lisp code it's C or simply just machine code? does cffi allow?
12:06:12
no-defun-allowed
(defun compile-c-program (input-source output-object) (with-open-file (input input-source) (with-open-file (output output-object) (loop for line = (read-line input nil nil) until (null line) do (write-line line output)))))
12:08:20
beach
francogrex: I have thought for a very long time that C compilers should be written in Common Lisp, as opposed to in C or C++. But I don't think anyone has done it yet.
12:10:52
francogrex
no-defun-allowed: Vacietis yes that seems ok though limited but appears to be in the spirit
12:11:13
beach
By the way, didn't GCC end up using the Boehm-Weiser GC after many years of attempting to avoid automatic memory management?
12:13:45
no-defun-allowed
https://gcc.gnu.org/onlinedocs/gccint/Type-Information.html says there is a garbage collector, but I don't know if it's conservative if it needs a preprocessor to emit some kind of tracing information.
12:16:39
francogrex
yes indeed vacitis is a good proof of concept but very poor to produce anything of use
12:23:00
francogrex
but how about sbcl or any lisp used just as an assembler? from handwritten asm code to object code... that in theory should be easy maybe exists already?
12:24:53
beach
You can probably grab the assembler from any of the major Common Lisp implementations, like SBCL, or CCL, and probably also Mezzano.
12:27:21
heisig
I know of programmers that wrap handcrafted assembler snippets in SBCL VOPs for the very performance critical parts of their code.
12:31:29
flip214
francogrex: https://pvk.ca/Blog/2014/03/15/sbcl-the-ultimate-assembly-code-breadboard/
12:32:00
francogrex
heisig: hmm yes i know vops and i know how to use them, but not interested in that. I would like to output an .o object file. vop doesn't do that not made for it
12:39:33
francogrex
I have a feeling CFFI might be able to do that i mean if one has the opcodes how dfficult would it be to compile them to an object file?
12:43:37
heisig
Yes, one could do that, too. But in 90% of the cases you can get the very same assembler code just by compiling Lisp with the right declarations.
12:44:27
heisig
And I'm trying to boost that to 95% of the cases by writing a proper SIMD interface for SBCL.
12:55:45
beach
francogrex: The hard part, at least for x86 is to select a machine instruction, given a source instruction, and also generating the bytes for that selected machine instruction.
13:33:58
nwoob
If someone makes an api that gives dynami response in structure and to parse that structure can metaprogramming be helpful?
13:42:38
nwoob
what if there is a project that build websites from a documentation that user can edit? Given that we have templates of design... The documentation data will be parsed and will become response of API or APIs
14:17:49
splittist
Forget the x86, the new hotness to target is PowerPoint https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LArkm4v5mWA
16:23:39
jcowan
edgar-rft: There were those crank-powered laptops: that's "power" to a physicist, but not the rest of us.
16:34:31
jcowan
apparently the hand crank on the XO laptop was basically vaporware: actually shipped XOs used ordinary power adapters.