freenode/#lisp - IRC Chatlog

17:01:04 splittist lukego: I can't seem to make with-output-as-presentation work. I get 'error in process filter: Symbol's function definition is void: assert'

17:25:59 splittist On the plus side, I've tracked down the problem with stream margins.

17:28:33 splittist https://snipboard.io/Ign6h7.jpg

17:55:31 phoe assert? isn't that a CL symbol?

18:03:32 lukego splittist: hm! I'll remove that, must be loaded separately in my env

18:04:31 lukego (pushed)

18:04:42 lukego splittist: wow !!

18:05:00 splittist Also, if you produce a giant image (by, for example, doing a format-graph-from-roots for all the subclasses of clim:design, emacs really doesn't like it ...

18:05:28 splittist insert close paren in the obvious place above

18:06:09 lukego I hope you don't mind me syndicating your screenshots on twitter :)

18:06:30 lukego ACTION attends to dog and family but will check this out in the morning :)

18:06:50 splittist What is this 'twitter' thing? Best to family (and dog).

18:52:26 splittist lukego: for the morning - now it complains about 'second' (:

18:57:53 lotuseater hm how can i try that out myself with mcclim in emacs? :)

18:59:57 dieggsy have any of you seen an issue with sly and ACL where it says polling ... infinitely

19:01:02 lotuseater oh you use sly with ACL2? cool

19:02:15 dieggsy well, i use sly with SBCL, but i just started using ACL for work

19:02:22 dieggsy tryina set it all up

19:02:41 lukego splittist: oj my common lisp accent is really hurting my elisp :)

19:02:47 splittist lotuseater: you need (from github) the nuddyco/McClim cloned into your quicklisp/local-projects/ (or wherever you put those things), then the nuddyco/slime somewhere in your emacs load-path, remembering to use the slime-clime contrib.

19:02:51 lukego gonna need a test suite shortly..

19:02:51 MichaelRaskin Allegro CL, not ACL2 the proof system, right?

19:02:51 Xach dieggsy: i also use allegro cl for work, but no issues starting sly.

19:03:42 lotuseater ahh, names and the associations in my head clashed :D

19:04:06 dieggsy lotuseater MichaelRaskin yeah whoops sorry allegro cl heh

19:04:17 lukego push an s/second/cadr/

19:04:31 dieggsy Xach: what OS are you on? i wonder if it's some weird macOS thing. normally i run linux

19:04:43 lotuseater but thx dieggsy, reminds me to learn more how to use ACL2 for proving

19:04:50 lotuseater thx splittist

19:05:03 Noisytoot ** NICK Sigyn

19:05:13 Sigyn ** NICK Noisytoot

19:08:19 splittist lukego: now do 'text-property-search-forward' ...

19:08:42 lukego okay let me fire up an `emacs -q` :)

19:12:51 lukego grr why doesn't (require 'text-property-search) work

19:13:48 lukego oh maybe it's just a bleeding edge emacs feature? I have it in 27 but not 26

19:14:25 lukego okay, sorry a bit late at night to backport that. maybe just load this file https://github.com/emacs-mirror/emacs/blob/master/lisp/emacs-lisp/text-property-search.el

19:14:30 lukego will fix tomorrow

19:14:46 splittist I have 27.2

19:16:02 lukego weird. the function is in the manual anyway so I'm not sure whassap. https://www.gnu.org/software/emacs/manual/html_node/elisp/Property-Search.html

19:17:40 splittist lukego: requiring text-property-search, and fixing a 'first' (-> car) and it works!

19:18:06 lukego huzzah!

19:18:49 splittist ACTION goes back to wondering how to handle transformations

19:19:43 lukego pushed hopefully a fix for that. now going to watch some Call My Agent ..

19:25:52 dieggsy oh, i'm seeing an error in the inferior-lisp buffer: Error: Symbol "PACKAGE-LOCAL-NICKNAMES" not found in EXCL package.

19:27:17 phoe EXCL?

19:27:23 phoe is this CLISP?

19:27:49 phoe wait, it's ACL

19:27:55 phoe do you have all patches downloaded?

19:28:07 dieggsy oof, patches?

19:28:08 phoe I know that PLNs are only available on Allegro if it's updated

19:28:10 phoe t

19:28:47 phoe https://franz.com/support/patches/log/10.1/index.lhtml#lisp_pma017_003

19:28:52 phoe AFAIK it's this one

19:29:02 dieggsy ah shucks.

19:29:03 phoe at least it was this one the last time I mailed Kevin Layer about it

19:29:48 dieggsy i might be out of luck in this case lol

19:29:59 phoe can't you tell your ACL to update itself?

19:30:09 dieggsy phoe: woah, can i ?

19:30:13 phoe of course you can

19:30:26 dieggsy phoe: i just started using allegro like, today

19:30:29 dieggsy what's the command for that?

19:31:12 phoe looks like (sys:update-allegro) and then rebuild your image

19:31:20 phoe https://franz.com/support/patches/ has more information

19:31:45 dieggsy oh, there's a handy update.sh script

19:31:46 dieggsy i'll try that

19:34:19 dieggsy phoe: hey, that seemed to work! thank you

19:34:28 phoe dieggsy: <3

19:34:39 phoe now let's wait for Lispworks to finally update

19:36:06 lotuseater how is your experience with those commercial implementations?

19:38:33 phoe close to zero - I only run them to check some things for portability libraries

19:38:43 phoe I run SBCL 99% of the time and CCL 1% of the time

19:39:32 lotuseater okay

19:48:09 lotuseater just all those specialities of SBCL are of huge amount

19:57:29 Shinmera- ** NICK Shinmera

20:03:18 pjb ccl:95%, clisp:4%, sbcl:1%

20:03:42 pjb ecl, abcl, 0.ε%

20:04:34 lotuseater oh interesting, ccl the most :)

20:10:58 pjb lotuseater: since macOS is my current workstation…

20:13:10 lotuseater ah, so ccl works better on it?

20:13:40 pjb lotuseater: yes, and it has a GUI: Clozure CL.app in the AppStore.

20:23:36 lotuseater and then there's Clozure Associates company

20:40:23 lotuseater pjb: and i once got the impression of lispworks by reading on their website it has also good support on mac for building "apps"

20:42:45 Duuqnd ** NICK Guest26562

20:59:12 CL-ASHOK Common Lisp Recipes by Professor Weitz is such an underated gem

20:59:56 CL-ASHOK IMO one of the best books out there - its been the most useful for me

21:08:00 lotuseater CL-ASHOK: yes I learned much from it :)

21:08:34 lotuseater and furthermore, he's really friendly, I wrote some mails with him last year

21:09:02 lotuseater or the lectures on his youtube channel (mostly in german) are also very interesting

21:12:44 pjb lotuseater: indeed, but it's a commercial implementation. freenode is for discussion of free(dom) software ;-)

21:13:44 lotuseater yes, "free as in freedom" :)

21:17:06 splittist lukego: text bounding rectangles hopefully fixed https://snipboard.io/u5SiE4.jpg

21:28:56 splittist and one for the road https://snipboard.io/Z84UlJ.jpg

21:37:34 luis splittist: are there any bits that could be used by slime without clim for visualizing things? E.g., it’d be nice to draw class hierarchies in the inspector (or a new class browser, bits of which I’ve got in the works)

21:38:31 luis I’m guessing the layouting is done by CLIM :-/

21:42:40 luis Though augmenting bits and pieces when CLIM’s available could be an option

21:43:09 phoe or have a slime contrib that requires clim to be loaded on the CL side

21:43:24 phoe or attempts to load it on its own, I guess?

21:44:00 luis splittist, lukego: does this new toy do nested presentations?

21:47:18 luis phoe: yeah, something like that.

21:47:46 phoe luis: or even better - have a slime contrib that follows some sort of swank-ish protocol on the CL side

21:47:57 phoe and then clim or whatever other software can participate in that protocol

21:48:19 phoe therefore becoming a client who provides image data to be displayed by slime

21:48:40 phoe this way you become clim-agnostic with a thin layer of intermediate stuff in the middle

21:49:27 phoe this way you can load it independently of clim, you just won't be able to display anything by default until clim or some other client is loaded

21:51:00 luis phoe: right, there are a couple of ways to customize the inspector and things like that but is

21:51:14 luis ... is definitely underused

21:51:35 phoe looks like lukego and splittist found a nice way of solving that underusage!