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18:16:46
jackdaniel
https://github.com/McCLIM/McCLIM/pull/1039 tadam, here is a pull request which implements something I've started over a year ago, namely separation of the event queue and the input buffer
18:31:34
jackdaniel
its spec is quite lenghty, so rather not very easy. but i.e scymtym's clouseau gives you a good opportunity to introspect McCLIM structures
18:31:38
pjb
contrapunctus: I don't think it can be considered easy to implement and debug, given the time it takes to make a complete implementation (cf. McCLIM, etc).
18:32:10
pjb
contrapunctus: once you understand it well, it's probably easy enough to do a proof-of-concept prototype.
18:32:43
scymtym
contrapunctus: the CLIM specification is vague in many places and requires the implementation to do some complicated things. so it is not easy to implement. debugging on the other hand is mostly easy since you can concentrate on individual modules, draw debugging information everywhere and, as jackdaniel said, use the inspector to see what is going on
18:33:34
jackdaniel
otoh, assuming that the implementation is a) complete, b) stable and that you know abstraction, implementing things in CLIM is fun and easy
18:34:35
jackdaniel
but neither a) and b) is especially true (it is better than it was - hopefully); and there is only a handful of people who know abstractions on satisfying level
18:35:01
scymtym
and i should add that, while pinpointing problems is often easy, finding the /right/ solution often is not easy
18:38:17
scymtym
if we just could pick up the pace. i have so many pending changes (and i'm sure it's the same for others)
18:45:53
contrapunctus
The reason I ask is because I'm thinking of making a set of applications - malleable ( https://malleable.systems ) variants of programs I use regularly. I'm tired of applications being inextensible, hard to debug, consuming more resources than I'd like, and built on inconsistent abstractions...so those are the areas I'd like to focus on. CLIM is one of the ways I figured it could be done.
18:46:13
contrapunctus
(I see the implementation/specification complexity as a factor in the first three...)