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14:16:53
jackdaniel
“To keep large problems well structured, you either need superhuman will power or proper language support for interfaces.” - Greg Nelson
14:24:02
nyef
... What constitutes "proper" language support for interfaces here? I sense a "no true Scotsman" fallacy.
14:25:56
jackdaniel
I can't tell what was the quote author idea, but I understand it as a limitation on how objects interact with each other
14:26:40
jackdaniel
example of implementation of such idea is "never use slots directly" principle – using only a protocol for accessing objects
14:27:19
jackdaniel
this contract assures, that you won't hit "gotcha", because some :after method didn't get executed
14:28:54
jackdaniel
if there weren't convenient way to define accessors in CL, then each library would have to come up with its own idea how to access object innards
14:29:39
jackdaniel
what would lead to raised cognitive effort when working with libraries (different ways of doing the same thing) and introduced unnecessary mess
14:32:50
nyef
So, I see five potential lines of argument here, centered around the Linux kernel... 1. Does C have "proper" language support for interfaces? 2. Is the Linux kernel not "well structured"? 3. Do the kernel developers have "superhuman" will power? 4. Is the Linux kernel not dealing with a large problem? Or 5. Is the Linux kernel an existence proof for a counterargument?
14:34:02
jackdaniel
I would argue if it is well structured, but it is also a fact that it has strong leadership
14:34:30
jackdaniel
also bear in mind, that "quotes' carry only limited amount of truth (like general direction), so they are not claims per se
14:34:50
nyef
Yes. I would argue that "superhuman" will power is attainable, provided that you involve more than just one human.
14:36:13
nyef
I would further argue that /this is the most useful line of inquiry/, and that the follow-on question is "how might superhuman will power be replicated on a smaller scale?"
14:37:31
nyef
And that this is not a "technical" problem as such. (Well, it IS, but it's a social-technology thing, not a computer-technology thing.)
14:38:15
jackdaniel
if technology makes things easier, then having this computer technology as your aim influences greatly the overal result
14:39:15
jackdaniel
also attaining superhuman will power sounds like a lot of a hassle, so having language support which deems it unnecessary is something desireable
14:41:42
nyef
Mmm. Will power is a finite resource. Renewable, yes, but you can only have so much of it at a time. The less you need to use it, the more of it you have to use for important things.