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3:13:56
beach
I think "orthogonal" refers to the fact that it is independent of how applications are written.
3:15:07
beach
I am not sure where something like save-lisp-and-die fits in. Like you pointed out, it doesn't preserve the process, so not the threads, the i/o channels etc.
3:17:01
nyef
Hrm. Well, VM-state persistence would certainly cover being independent of how applications are written...
3:17:07
beach
More generally, I don't know your definition of VM-state persistence. Probably because I don't know your definition of VM.
3:18:27
nyef
"Virtual Machine". Either a "process", in the posix sense, or all the processes (so, something like a virtualbox or VMware save-state).
3:19:38
beach
OK, that explains why I didn't know, since I have very little experience with virtualbox and VMware. I can imagine saving one process or all processes though. But I don't see why it would be intrinsically impossible to save the threads and the i/o then.
3:20:16
beach
So if you write this stuff down, you should consider whether you want ignorant people like me to understand it.
3:21:46
nyef
If you're saving all the processes, you can save threads and I/O state, more or less, but any external communication (TCP/IP, serial, whatever) would be discarded at resume time. If you're only working with one process, things get a lot dicier, espeically if you're trying to interact with alien code.
3:23:41
beach
From reading things like CACM, I have come to realize that virtualization is now essential in data centers and such. I should probably read up on such stuff. I have the impression that it represents another layer trying to solve problems that ought not to exist in the first place, but I'll wait with my opinion until I know more.
3:29:23
beach
They (IBM) tried so sell us such a system when I worked in industry. We thought it was a joke. To communicate with another programmer, you had to put virtual punch cards in his or her virtual card reader. And you had to compress your own virtual disk when it fragmented.
3:29:24
beach
So we bought Multics instead, a stunt that was almost prevented by the CEO of this large international corporation which was all IBM at the time.
3:31:07
beach
"Do you mean that the largest computer manufacturer in the world is unable to satisfy your needs for a new development environment?" "Yes!"
3:32:10
beach
"And if you won't allow us to buy Multics, we prefer not to buy anything and continue developing our home-grown environment, rather than buying this IBM crap."
3:34:06
beach
loke: Those are near-precise quotes from the place where I used to work. Then it was called ASEA, now ABB.
3:36:36
beach
That's possible. I don't consider it important. I also didn't tell you the opposite, though.
3:38:19
beach
Written, quite good I think. Spoken, I lack vocabulary. Also, it depends on whether you consider my way of speaking as a dialect or as a separate language.
3:38:47
loke
beach: Both, probably. As you probably know, some swedish dialects are so different that it may well be called a spearate languae.
3:39:06
beach
When I write to my family, I keep a French/Swedish and an English/Swedish dictionary around.
3:39:46
loke
beach: Let's put it this way: When/if we meet, would you be comfotable communicating in swedish?
3:40:17
beach
When I studied at the university in Linköping, I made an effort to make myself understood, but when I moved to the USA a few years later, I slipped back into my childhood way of speaking.
3:41:50
beach
And my brother tells me I am an excellent example of it not being necessary to acquire a foreign accent, even after 30+ years abroad.
3:42:32
beach
He is right, but I do lack vocabulary these days. It is hard to notice though, because one gets around that problem in conversation.
3:43:31
loke
beach: I think you would have little problem discussing Common Lisp in swedish then :-)
3:44:00
beach
Definitely. I tried to give a presentation of my research in Swedish once. It was a disaster.
3:44:49
beach
loke: I do think of myself as a European. But we don't have EU passports yet, unfortunately. I am not into nations.
3:44:59
loke
That said, some technical nomenclature in Swedish can be tricky. I remember when I was a kid, we just used the english world for everything, like "Printer", "Monitor", etc. After a while, there was a shift over to the swedish terms.
3:45:19
beach
loke: I speak 5 languages. 3 fluently. One more, I could become fluent in if you give me a month.
3:45:38
loke
When I speka to people here in Asia, they pay little attention to the actual country I'm from, and I think I'm being seen as "European".
3:46:59
loke
beach: Yes. And the british has surely being showing their insanity lately. That said, it's not all bad. I noticed how the approval ratings for the EU has been going up, and the righ-wing nuts are becoming slightly less popular in the rest of eurupe.
3:48:28
beach
loke: Yeah, the far right here in France seems to have imploded after the election too.
3:49:58
loke
I only had the a few opportunities to experience it though (mainly at lunch time) since I was there for work.
3:50:54
beach
My Vietnamese is good enough that I can identify when a taxi driver in Sài Gòn is originally from Hanoi, and then use his (or her) pronunciation instead. :)
3:50:55
loke
A colleague of mine (Aussie) used to live there, and he tooka bike ride along the coast from near ho chi minh all the way up to hanoi
3:57:25
beach
OK, I think I need to go. In 30 minutes all hell will break loose, and it will last for around 4 hours.
3:57:33
loke
Did you come across a good asian (S.E. or indian) restaurant there? If so, I'd love to know where to find it.
3:59:44
beach
Yes, definitely not cheap. I don't go out often enough that I care about money though.
3:59:54
loke
The place near miontparnasse, is it a Thai place called Tomokazy perhaps? (checking google maps)
4:00:16
loke
https://www.google.com.sg/maps/@48.8405851,2.315506,3a,75y,158.25h,87.76t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1swGZzgGtOrG6einO2volyGw!2e0!6s%2F%2Fgeo2.ggpht.com%2Fcbk%3Fpanoid%3DwGZzgGtOrG6einO2volyGw%26output%3Dthumbnail%26cb_client%3Dsearch.TACTILE.gps%26thumb%3D2%26w%3D392%26h%3D106%26yaw%3D242.99904%26pitch%3D0%26thumbfov%3D100!7i13312!8i6656?hl=en
4:02:07
loke
Office near Trocadero is a hassle when it comes to food. Positively everything there is overpriced in that neighbourhood.