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5:50:26
nyef``
"The good news is that in 1995 we will have a good operating system and programming language; the bad news is that they will be Unix and C++." -- guess what I've been re-reading yet again?
5:53:09
nyef``
"Today's Lisp environments are equal to the very best Lisp machine environments in the 1970's. Windowing, fancy editing, and good debugging are all commonplace."
5:55:08
beach
whoman: I saw your questions about SICL and Cleavir in #clasp. If you have questions, I would be happy to answer them.
6:07:45
beach
nyef``: It might be true for commercial Common Lisp systems, but definitely not for free ones.
6:10:00
beach
I mean, what we call a "debugger" in our best free development environments is a joke compared to what GDB could do in 1985 or so.
8:30:31
hooman
beach, thank you. someone in another channel was discussing a similar idea so i pointed him there.
12:58:50
jackdaniel
if yes, here is a pull request (with anniversary index 404): https://github.com/robert-strandh/McCLIM/pull/404
15:36:21
nyef``
Any time I think of an actually *good* debugger experience that I've had, the debugger has been integrated into the IDE that I've been using at the time. Any time that I've seen GNU Emacs built up to the point of being "an IDE", the result has been *dreadful*.
15:39:58
nyef``
Hypothesis: A good source-level debugger is part of an "IDE", for two reasons. One, an IDE without debugging support is incomplete. And two, a source-level debugger that doesn't operate in terms of the source *in context* is a poor experience.
15:42:52
stassats
to put it even more widely, i don't i've ever had good experience using UI of any open source program
15:43:11
nyef``
I see things like ECB, and they look like someone saw Visual Studio and decided to create a knock-off using emacs, while substantially missing the point.
15:44:56
stassats
complicated UIs take a lot of effort, and not many hobbyists are willing to put in that effort
15:47:20
nyef``
Heh. Look at how long it took for SBCL to support MacRoman, vs. how long it took to support EBCDIC. (-:
15:47:39
stassats
it'll probably take me a day to add CRLF to SBCL, but i've been delaying it for years
15:48:19
nyef``
Mmm. If I still used Windows, I'd probably have gotten sufficiently pissed off about it to fix it years ago.
15:57:45
hooman
not many things use gnu emacs UI =/ widgets and tree views and such, like customize, or slime inspect