Search
Friday, 21st of July 2017, 12:38:14 UTC
12:38:55
nyef
... Looks like the bluetooth thing is crashed.
12:46:02
reg_
if I want to compile and run cleavir
12:46:37
beach
reg_: That is not as easy as it sounds. It needs some customization that is related to the implementation that runs it.
12:46:54
beach
reg_: Clasp uses it, so you might ask Bike what had to be done.
12:47:25
beach
Otherwise, you can get a SICL prompt that uses Cleavir and some of the host if you follow the instructions in the README.
12:48:25
beach
The "Quick Start" section.
12:49:55
beach
Then you are using Cleavir.
12:50:17
beach
Anything you type to the prompt will be compiled to HIR by Cleavir.
12:50:35
reg_
as I told a couple of days ago
12:50:44
reg_
the project cannot be compilerd
12:50:57
reg_
(asdf:load-system :sicl-boot)
12:51:10
reg_
therefore I believe I am missing several modules
12:51:29
reg_
when launching (load "Code/Cleavir/Environment/Examples/sbcl.lisp")
12:53:28
beach
That REPL is very incomplete. You can't expect to run arbitrary code with it. But you can try out simple things. Loading a file such as sbcl.lisp very likely will not work, and it doesn't make much sense either.
12:54:31
reg_
I am restarting from an empty image
12:54:47
beach
Sure, make sure you have 10GB of heap.
12:55:05
reg_
well if I don't I should get memory errors right?
12:55:14
reg_
that has nothing to do with missing dependencies right?
12:55:20
reg_
I cannot have 10GB of heap
12:55:21
beach
You end up in ldb with "heap exhausted".
12:56:59
beach
OK, let me ask you this instead: when you say you want to compile and run Cleavir, what do you expect it to produce when it runs?
12:58:50
reg_
I am behind a proxy and I cannot install quicklisp
12:58:59
reg_
will have to repeat the whole process this evening
12:59:16
beach
Since Cleavir is a "compiler framework", i.e., a library that needs a fairly large amount of customization from the implementation running it, it can't really be "run" independently of such an implementation. Perhaps the best solution is to use Clasp. Then you get to use Cleavir with each interaction.
12:59:17
reg_
I expect to be able to execute this code
12:59:31
reg_
(cleavir-hir-interpreter:interpret-hir (cleavir-sbcl-environment::compile-cleavir '(lambda () (+ 32 10))))
12:59:53
reg_
after having run (ql:quickload '(cleavir-generate-ast cleavir-ast-to-hir cleavir-hir-interpreter))
13:00:02
beach
That might work. Bike wrote that and I am not sure how it works.
13:00:17
reg_
but I am getting an error on "cleavir-scbl-environment
13:00:33
reg_
that dependencies is not loaded in the image
13:00:34
beach
reg_: I suggest you ask Bike in #lisp or in #clasp.
13:00:41
oleo
can't you intoduce shortcuts like chi:ih or cse::cc
13:01:08
reg_
I want definetely to play with cleavir
13:01:14
beach
oleo: package names are global, so one has to be very careful not to introduce conflicts.
13:01:34
beach
reg_: OK, then Bike is the one to ask. He is working with it on a daily basis.
13:01:36
reg_
but i wanted to repeat everything from scratch with a clean image
13:01:54
reg_
Will I be able to find him online tomorrow?
13:02:14
beach
He is on eastern daylight time in the US.
13:02:29
beach
reg_: Where are you located?
13:02:31
reg_
ok I am based in europe CET
13:02:51
beach
So either before 6am or after 3pm then.
13:03:35
beach
He is not on right now though. Shouldn't be long.
13:04:13
reg_
what if I implemented an HIR interpreter in c/c++?
13:04:49
beach
Well, you would still need a Common Lisp system to execute it.
13:05:17
reg_
rather than execute it right?
13:05:47
beach
No, I mean, HIR code executes in a run-time environment that contains lots of stuff like standard functions, classes, metaclasses, etc.
13:05:56
beach
That environment has to exist.
13:06:04
beach
It is called "a Common Lisp system".
13:06:40
oleo
you could try xcl or so....
13:06:41
reg_
I tough it was a generic low level intermediate code format
13:06:57
oleo
tho afaik it is not a continued project
13:07:03
beach
reg_: Clasp is the only existing more-or-less complete Common Lisp system using Cleavir.
13:07:24
reg_
xcl license is not liberal
13:07:59
beach
reg_: There is no such thing as generic low-level code in Common Lisp. Everything executes relative to a huge run-time environment.
13:08:22
beach
reg_: By the way, Bike just joined. I guess he is at work now.
13:09:43
reg_
but I expected the HIR to depend on a very small kernel
13:09:59
reg_
I understood that this was a target of SICL
13:10:13
reg_
to rely o a very small kernel and try to bootstrap everything on top of it
13:10:24
reg_
a complete CL system is definetely not a small kernel
13:11:00
reg_
your work is absolutely awesome
13:11:29
reg_
I am not cryticizing a single row of code written by you don't misunderstand me
13:11:37
reg_
english is not my native languag
13:11:47
beach
I see. What is your native language?
13:12:17
reg_
well same rating roots as yours
13:12:38
beach
French is only my third language.
13:12:54
beach
Well the fourth I learned, really.
13:13:09
beach
The second in terms of fluency I guess.
13:13:10
reg_
you are based in France aren't you?
13:13:56
reg_
I'll ask a couple of questions to bike
13:29:00
flip214
nyef: /dev/tcp is a virtual directory, provided by bash for redirections. not visible via ls etc.
13:45:45
nyef
flip214: Lovely. God forbid someone put an _actual_ /dev/tcp device or directory in their system.
13:47:56
flip214
you can use /dev/udp in bash as well...
13:53:19
nyef
Under the circumstances, I'm suspecting that bash has rather badly overstepped its bounds in the unixoid notion of "small, sharp tools".
13:58:24
flip214
nyef: to be fair, I've found use for that more often that I would care to count.
13:58:49
flip214
more often than not there was neither bsd-netcat nor gnu-netcat installed, and I needed to transfer some data around.
13:58:55
flip214
Yeah, I'm doing too much recovery.
14:02:00
nyef
Oh, I'm not even going to try to deny that it's useful, I'm just saying that it's badly out-of-scope and not _discoverable_.
14:02:31
nyef
Oh, and that it potentially conflicts with something that could happen in the filesystem.
14:02:58
nyef
Using something like UNC filespecs would have been saner.
14:10:33
nyef
(Except, of course, some systems already use UNC filespecs, so it'd have to be something _else_ that doesn't collide the filepath namespace.)
14:11:14
flip214
well, regarding discoverable.... "man bash" ;)
14:11:38
flip214
don't you read manpages at leisure, like lexica 30 years ago or so?
14:15:30
nyef
I had the bash manpage open last week, but I was looking for information on the command-line history mechanism.
14:15:38
nyef
Also, the bash manpage is stupidly long.
14:18:45
flip214
but still shorter than CLHS.....
18:38:14
nyef
Hunh. There exist PCI-to-NuBus adaptors. Going to have to keep my eye out for one of those, for a couple of reasons. (-:
Saturday, 22nd of July 2017, 0:38:14 UTC